• ARRSE have partnered with Armadillo Merino to bring you an ARRSE exclusive, generous discount offer on their full price range.
    To keep you warm with the best of Merino gear, visit www.armadillomerino.co.uk and use the code: NEWARRSE40 at the checkout to get 40% off!
    This superb deal has been generously offered to us by Armadillo Merino and is valid until midnight on the the 28th of February.

So was Hitler an idiot?

#1
I've been watching a few documentaries recently and although he seems to have done well in 1939/40, while listening to his Generals, he seems to have blown it in 1941. Pausing the attack on Moscow and diverting south when victory was in his grasp. Pausing at Stalingrad and diverting south for the oil fields, then changing his mind 2 weeks later blowing the whole thing.

I'm no expert but even I know you re-enforce success and don't chop and change every five minutes.

Any Barbarossa experts in the house able to expand?
 
#4
He was alright when he listened to his Generals, it all went to ratshit when he started thinking that he was anymore than a vastly over promoted Lance Jack.

In my opinion anyway.
 
#5
According to the generals, every German victory was the result of generals' brilliance and every defeat was caused by Hitler's interference.

Of course the generals we able to write memoirs post war, while Hitler was not.

On your detailed points, I don't think victory was in the German's grasp at Moscow, the oil fields were very important and being further south there were less weather problems, Hitler did get obsessed with Stalingrad probably because of the name.
 
#6
He outreached himself with the limited resources to hand. I never understood why he hit the Russians when he did. Why not finish us off and re-arm, regroup etc then hit Stalin. Stalin would have kept, he clearly never saw it coming.

So yep, Hitler was a div. Fcuker had style though.

Edited to add. Leaving the Africa Corp to rot was the beginning of the end and I think that was his decision.
 
#7
I've long had a theory about WW2. It goes along the lines of Hitler wasn't really responsible for it, even though he invaded Poland. It was actually a conspiracy between Vera Lynn & Glenn Miller so that they could sell the maximum number of records, & they bribed Hitler to take the rap for it. Later the Japs got in on the conspiracy too, & Hirohito was made to look like a ruthless warlord for a few years rather than a botanist.......
 
#9
He outreached himself with the limited resources to hand. I never understood why he hit the Russians when he did. Why not finish us off and re-arm, regroup etc then hit Stalin. Stalin would have kept, he clearly never saw it coming.

So yep, Hitler was a div. Fcuker had style though.
It might have been a possibility that Stalin would invade first, Our glourious Soviet allies did invade half a dozen countries (including Poland)prior to 1941
 
#10
I think it went to ratshit for the erics when the generals got scared of telling corpral hitler the military truth and started telling him what he wanted to hear
Wasnt it about 1941 when hitler started listening to phsycics(spelling?)/mystic type people
 
#11
Its a while since I read anything on WW2 so apologise if I get my facts wrong. I was under the assumption that it was his idea to attack through the Ardennes in 1940 whereas his generals wanted to attack through Belgium as the German army did in 1914. Most of his early popularity was gained by the fact that a lot of the early campaigns were his ideas.
The reason he swung his troops south instead of attacking Moscow was for two reasons, one was to capture the resources in the Caucasus, Hitler was well aware of Germany`s lack of resources during the latter years of WW1 and didn`t want to be caught out again. Secondly the German forces were taking a hell of a lot of casualties clearing urban areas, even small towns were holding them up for many days in some instances, so attacking Moscow at that moment would`ve bled the army dry both in manpower and materiel.
Its possible that considering the victories he had up to that point he was over optimistic and decided to grab the resources and then whittle away at Moscow in due course, but in the following weeks it became apparent that the bear was far from beaten so he decided then to go for the kill before it was too late.
 
#12
On holiday this summer I got chatting to a Dutch guy about Hitler. He wondered whether Hitler might have enjoyed the same rise to power had he been in Britain in the Thirties. I had to assure him that with that ' tache and the pasted down quiff, he'd have been laughed off the stage. You have to look the part here.
 
B

Boozy

Guest
#16
He needed Poland for Danzig didn't he? something to do with having a port/coastline I think...also it provided a buffer zone between him and Russia for a while...

On hitler I thoroughly recommend Sebastian Haffner's book, "The Meaning of Hitler" ... it's short and readable (one nights worth) and details and analyses in turn his achievements and sucesses as well as his mistakes and crimes. Give an insight into his psychology and way of thinking.


Here's a link to the google book preview...The meaning of Hitler - Google Books
 
#17
He needed Poland for Danzig didn't he? something to do with having a port/coastline I think...also it provided a buffer zone between him and Russia for a while...

On hitler I thoroughly recommend Sebastian Haffner's book, "The Meaning of Hitler" ... it's short and readable (one nights worth) and details and analyses in turn his achievements and sucesses as well as his mistakes and crimes. Give an insight into his psychology and way of thinking.


Here's a link to the google book preview...The meaning of Hitler - Google Books
Nice one boozy. Your as handy with a helpful tip as your are with a hockey stick.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
When you look at it makes you wonder why he didn't hit them first before Poland?
Thats a question I was mulling over a week or two ago
Why not hit Poland and then carry straight on to Russia
I know he had the whole WW1 revenge against France but we would have left him alone as he hadn't attacked us or the French
Given his kit v the Russians in 1940 he would have had a good shout

Typical Lance Jack thought he knew best
 
M

Mr_Logic

Guest
#19
Its a while since I read anything on WW2 so apologise if I get my facts wrong. I was under the assumption that it was his idea to attack through the Ardennes in 1940 whereas his generals wanted to attack through Belgium as the German army did in 1914. Most of his early popularity was gained by the fact that a lot of the early campaigns were his ideas.
The reason he swung his troops south instead of attacking Moscow was for two reasons, one was to capture the resources in the Caucasus, Hitler was well aware of Germany`s lack of resources during the latter years of WW1 and didn`t want to be caught out again. Secondly the German forces were taking a hell of a lot of casualties clearing urban areas, even small towns were holding them up for many days in some instances, so attacking Moscow at that moment would`ve bled the army dry both in manpower and materiel.
Its possible that considering the victories he had up to that point he was over optimistic and decided to grab the resources and then whittle away at Moscow in due course, but in the following weeks it became apparent that the bear was far from beaten so he decided then to go for the kill before it was too late.
IIRC, the Ardennes decision was something to do with a bloke called Manstein.

People do not like to give Hitler credit for the strategically wise decisions that he did make. He must have had something about him to rise from Cpl to the leader of a nation of 80 million within 14 years. If that makes him an idiot then so be it. However, in 1940 the Wehrmacht chased the British Army out of the continent in less than six weeks. Trying to de-link that completely from Hitler's leadership, strategic direction and decisions may prove to be problematic. Going to war with the British Empire, the USSR and then declaring war on the US was not a high point, but the lad showed some initial promise. The Holocaust was clearly a red card issue that he should have been back-termed for.
 
#20
Herr Hitler was a Gambler.
Early on he got things right, from his point of view.
Later the fact he despised his Generals and was convinced that he knew better then Professionally trained long service officers had him follow more and more his gambling instincts.
For years I have believed that if he had taken Moscow in late 41 he would have won the war in the east.
All railroads went through Moscow and their was no road system to talk of.

john
 

Latest Threads