So army 2020 anymore cash for the TA?

#1
Thought not?
How exactly are they planning to physically double the numbers new dill halls etc or is it just a paper exercise.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#2
Dill originates from Eastern Europe and is much hardier than most people think.

Fresh, frozen or dried, the ferny foliage and seeds are a tasty flavouring for fish, lamb, new potatoes and peas. Remember to add dill at the end of cooking, because cooking will destroy most of its flavour. It tastes very much like aniseed, so be sparing when adding it to food or it will overwhelm other flavours.

Dill is tolerant of most conditions and easy to germinate, so it causes few problems for novice gardeners. Container grown or in the garden it is also a very attractive plant with wispy feathery leaves.

To that end, I don't think you need to build halls to grow your Dill. An open garden will suffice.
 
#3
Do we need more drill halls ? They are more than half empty on a drill night as it it, and since they are typically only open one parade night a week for one unit it would be simple enough to have more than one unit even in a small TAC

At my old TAC in Hull for example there were three units parading there on different nights, and that was a small TAC
 
#4
Ha ******* ha :( :)
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#5
Didn't you get the letter from DCLF?

His opening paragraph reads:

"Today’s A2020 announcement has not provided you with the level of detail that some of you might have been expecting from a Reserve perspective. This has been deliberate as, while the A2020 team developed a detailed revised structure for the Reserve, the final decisions are dependent upon the outcome of the work to develop the Army Basing Plan; this will not be complete and announced until the end of the year. Only then will we be able to announce the revised structure and laydown for the Army Reserve, and how Regular and Reserve units will be paired."

In other words, once they have figured out what they are going to do with the regular army, they will then start to work out where to put the reserves.

I very much doubt that will include any more real estate.
 
#6
Do we need more drill halls ? They are more than half empty on a drill night as it it, and since they are typically only open one parade night a week for one unit it would be simple enough to have more than one unit even in a small TAC

At my old TAC in Hull for example there were three units parading there on different nights, and that was a small TAC
you're right, what it needs is some sort of....[stares thoughtfully into the middle distance before snapping fingers]

snazzy advertising campaign!
 
#8
Brighton Hippy - get on message. This superb government is investing more than £1.8bn in the reserves over the next 10 years, to turn the current set of hopeless, HLS beret wearing gareths into underwater knife fighting ninjas well capable of fighting any foreign adventure of CMD's choosing, cementing David's, whoops I mean Britian's place in history . Difficult decisions needed to be taken to reduce the size of the regular army due to the financial black hole created by the previous incumbents, military covenant, integration, blah blah blah....
 
#10
Before we discuss how the MOD is going to splurge 1.8Bn on the reserves, perhaps we need to address a few more fundamental questions than whether we need to build more and shinier drill halls. In any case, given that the new basing plan seeks to put regular army garrisons closer to centres of population and Army 2020 would see a closer relationship between regular and reserve components, it would be logical to get TA soldiers to conduct their duty at the regular army garrisons, rather than in some isolated drill hall where the quality of training is unlikely to be as high.

Once again, I suggest we seek to answer the following, before we decide which TAC bar to refurbish first:

What changes to TA TACOS and civilian employment legislation and culture must be made (and perhaps more importantly how). Also how must the part time/TA component of the adaptive force be structured in order to complement the regular component. I would also be interested in the thoughts (particularly of TA officers/WOs) on whether they believe there are actually enough (30,000 odd) potential recruits out there who of sufficiently high calibre and who hold civilian employment that is compatible with the level of military commitment envisaged by the Army 2020 concept.

Evidently the adaptive forces will be much more tightly integrated (regular and reserve), perhaps to the extent that units have both regular and reserve soldiers on strength and so that a TA soldier spends his time in uniform at that unit rather than at a solely TA training centre. Would this see off the criticism by some TA officers that "the regular army get the TA they deserve" and that poor standards, recruiting and retention are often down to poor regular army staff.

So my questions are:

1. How should TA TACOS be changed to satisfy the MOD requirement while being compatible with civilian employment culture/practice?

2. What else must the government do to enable the sort of employment model/culture that we will need for Army 2020 (e.g. does the government need to whip the country into patriotic ferver in order to pursuade civilian employers to do without their employees when they are needed by the MOD)?

3. How should the reserve (and perhaps regular) components of the adaptive forces be structured? Should the TA be in formed units with some sort of pairing arrangement or should we have joint regular and TA units or independant TA units which are structured to deliver individual troops to the regular component but not so as to operate as a formed unit?

4. Is there a sufficient recruiting pool to get an additional 30,000 (plus untrained liability) TA troops?

5. What level of commitment should this new breed of TA troops be expected to make? Clearly the current number of MTDs is insufficient, but how many is the right number given that they are still part time troops with 'full time' civilian jobs and in most cases families as well.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#11
Why not just bin the TA, and use the money to keep the Regs at an acceptable level of manning?
 
#12
The RNR and RAuxAF, being quicker out of the gate with their reserve 2020 programmes, are reporting extra money as available and up for bidding for. Thus once Army command work out how they want to expand the TA they can bid for their chunk of the money.

Given various buzzwords in the overall 2020 document ("cyber, civil contingency and wider regeneration") are likely to be good bets for getting extra cash I'd imagine the Army will want in on those areas specifically as well.
 
#14
The TA currently costs somewhere in the region of £450m. This is broken down into £170m Training (MTDs, POL, Ammo etc) £180m Perm Staff (admin, PSIs etc), £50m Estates and £50m Cadets, and therefore an increase of £1.8Bn over 10 years or £180m per year is a substantial sum of money.

That is until you realise that the real manning (Number achieving Certificate of Efficiency) rather than paper strength is somewhere around 10k compared to 25k on the books. The army would like to increase this to 30k + recruits. If so, the £180m is going to get used up pretty quickly even before any new TACs / units are brought into the picture. I think all units will start to see changes towards the end of this year, but the real changes will be seen and felt in the next financial year.

Drill halls have to be in the centre of populations. If they are not, you end up with empty drill halls and everyone wonders why. Most recruits will come from within 20mins drive of their TACs. Once people are in, then most will travel to get there, but getting the potential recruit in is the bit that doesn’t change. Having TACs only inside regular garrisons leads to large areas of the population not being included and more often than not a dusty hanger out of sight and out of mind. If you want manning, then the TAC needs to be in the centre of town, in the public eye and mind, and sharing with cadet organisations – to really be part of the community. By the sounds of it if you want efficiency, go to the garrison towns, share facilities / instructors etc with the units there and use the benefits of scale. Or simply have a mixture of the two.

It comes back to the argument of central control v grass root level support.
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
#15
The 20 minute rule is a bit out of date, but I will take that argument if you accept that many people commute far longer every day.

Now, given that the AR will be part and parcel of the A2020, there will be no need for it to have vehicles (maybe a few minibuses) or any equipment, this will all be held centrally at the big new Army bases.

Thus huge savings that can be ploughed into recruiting and manning the new AR.

The idea of a drill hall in every town is dead, long live WFM and central control. It will work, and I bet you over the next 10 years we will see countless ppt. to prove that it is working. Otherwise, the emperors new clothes will be exposed, and that cannot and will not be allowed to happen.
 
#18
The 20 minute rule is a bit out of date, but I will take that argument if you accept that many people commute far longer every day.
Without being able to give figures for all sub units across all aspects of the TA, I can say that in my experience of a number of TA sub units, 90% still come from within the 20 min rule. Most expressing an interest to join the local TA unit – it can take sometime for a recruit to work out that not every TAC does the same stuff. I do accept that there will be some who travel to a national unit that we don’t get to see. The serving members who have built up some experience and personal loyalty to the unit will travel much further and by the time you get to the headshed level, it could be anything upto 2hrs in order to serve in a particular unit.

As an example, there is a 55k population town 25 mins away from my current subunit, which we receive no recruits from, but have 4 existing members living there even though there is another TA unit on the outskirts of that town. They all originally came from our town and moved while in the unit.

I think you are right about the emperors new clothes and it not being allowed be seen to fail rather than actually fail. Remember it is process and efficiency which is important not results and manning.
 
#19
Why not just bin the TA, and use the money to keep the Regs at an acceptable level of manning?
Because it would probably need a big multiplication factor to achieve that.

In the event of the International situtaion, or a local problem somewhere, deteriorating then the TA facilities dispersed as they are in our big cities could provide the ideal reception centres for willing volunteers to muster at.
 
#20
Still plenty of Drill Halls about that are only used for Cadets at present... f they could be used by the TA again that would be a smashing start.
 

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