SNP - no mandate off the people of Scotland

#1
This mainly is a question to union members from north of the border.
Just done a bit of number cunching from the election results and less than one in ten people of Scotland voted for the SNP, question is with such a low return why do they seem to get such a say in, not only Scotland, but within the union as well. :?
 
#2
jockster said:
This mainly is a question to union members from north of the border.
Just done a bit of number cunching from the election results and less than one in ten people of Scotland voted for the SNP, question is with such a low return why do they seem to get such a say in, not only Scotland, but within the union as well. :?
probably cuz they're to the left?
 
#3
mac1 said:
jockster said:
This mainly is a question to union members from north of the border.
Just done a bit of number cunching from the election results and less than one in ten people of Scotland voted for the SNP, question is with such a low return why do they seem to get such a say in, not only Scotland, but within the union as well. :?
probably cuz they're to the left?
To the left of what, the BNP???
 
#4
Firstly, even (in the unlikely event) were the SNP to win every seat in Scotland, they still could not form a Government, in Westminster.

Secondly, as Scotland has it's own Parliament, and as that Parliament was not holding elections at this time, there wasn't really much point in Scots folks schleping to the polls, to elect someone to a body, which has been in many ways replaced.

The reason that they (the SNP) have a say in the Union, is that they are the elected Government of one of the members of the Union.
 
#5
Seanie said:
mac1 said:
probably cuz they're to the left?
To the left of what, the BNP???
Everybody bar the Greens, really.

The SNP have a voice because of their marginal success in the 2007 Scottish election - they have never done as well as that in Westminster elections. Labour dominate not just because of the 40+% of the vote they get but because of the concentration in the Central Belt.

I was quite surprised how badly the SNP did - no new MPs. And, of course, the Tories getting more than a third of Labour's vote but a fortieth of the seats.

Why a voice in the union? Same as the shinners. Because they are agin it.
 
#6
jockster said:
This mainly is a question to union members from north of the border.
Just done a bit of number cunching from the election results and less than one in ten people of Scotland voted for the SNP, question is with such a low return why do they seem to get such a say in, not only Scotland, but within the union as well. :?
The tories got less and they are going to have a huge say in what happens north of the border.
 
#7
More votes than lib dems yet half the seats? FPTP is a shite system, need a better form of PR.
 

Auld-Yin

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#8
Scotland is in for a really hard time over the next parliament.

The Scottish voters told the Tories to FO at the high port, in no uncertain terms. So when government contracts come up, how many will sit north of the border. Few, as the Tories just have to look at what they would gain in Scotland by keeping them sweet - feck all. Don't blame them.

In fact the Tories, if they were not a Unionist party, could look at the political map and decide to let Scotlnd have its freedom and see it as a burden off the Tories back. It would get rid of 58 votes they don't control. They could then look at the other 'states' of Wales and N Ireland and perhaps come to the same conclusion, although they would probably retain Wales as a sop to their idea of 'owning' another country.

If the Tories did that then Labour would never again be electable and the Tories would be in power for a very long time indeed.

As it is, if Cameron gets in he will be PM of England - the only country which gave him a mandate to govern.
 
#10
Seanie said:
Idrach said:
Seanie said:
mac1 said:
probably cuz they're to the left?
To the left of what, the BNP???
Everybody bar the Greens, really.
Fascinating opinion, I consider myself left wing and would rather pull all my teeth out with a pair of pliers than vote for the SNP. Nationalism is not a left wing concept...
Didn't the Red Clydesiders want independence?
 

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#11
Seanie said:
Idrach said:
Seanie said:
mac1 said:
probably cuz they're to the left?
To the left of what, the BNP???
Everybody bar the Greens, really.
Fascinating opinion, I consider myself left wing and would rather pull all my teeth out with a pair of pliers than vote for the SNP. Nationalism is not a left wing concept...
Seanie, I agree that nationalism is not necessarily a left wing concept, in fact it is often rather more right wing :) However, if you look at the policies of the SNP, other than nationalism then you will find they are indeed a left wing leaning organisation.

You might think that if SNP was a one issue i.e. nationalism, party then they would try to appeal to all side of the political spectrum, but it seems they remain heavily to the left wing - an area currently occupied by Labour in Scotland :D
 

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#12
BrandySoured said:
Seanie said:
Idrach said:
Seanie said:
mac1 said:
probably cuz they're to the left?
To the left of what, the BNP???
Everybody bar the Greens, really.
Fascinating opinion, I consider myself left wing and would rather pull all my teeth out with a pair of pliers than vote for the SNP. Nationalism is not a left wing concept...
Didn't the Red Clydesiders want independence?
No - they wanted to take over England!!!!!! :D
 
#13
The SNP do have a mandate from the people of Scotland because they are the largest single party in the Scottish Parliament. Until the next election to Holyrood, they will continue to have that mandate.

Westminster elections are not Holyrood elections and the voting patterns reflect this.
 
#14
Seanie said:
Idrach said:
Seanie said:
mac1 said:
probably cuz they're to the left?
To the left of what, the BNP???
Everybody bar the Greens, really.
Fascinating opinion, I consider myself left wing and would rather pull all my teeth out with a pair of pliers than vote for the SNP. Nationalism is not a left wing concept...
I agree. It really should be viewed as a standalone concept as it has support from all parts of the political spectrum.

As to the result, allthough the SNP increased its share of the vote, it is no surprise to me that Labour held up its own for the National election. Scots aren't dumb and if there is a chance to be in power (labour) why on earth would you vote for anyone else?

It will be interesting to watch the next round of Scottish elections. It'll be at that point we will see if the SNP has a mandate.
 
#15
What really, really pisses me off is that (as someone else said) the Central Belt vote Labour.

The reason they vote Labour?

"Because ma' faither voted Labour and his faither afore him"

No doubt it's the same in the South;

"Because pater voted Tory and his pater before him"
 
#16
To even things out what we need is diffeent method of government. The Welsh, Jocks and N Irish have there's, but we, the English fund all 3 but have no representation for our own.

n Scotland the MSP's voted in favour of binning Prescription fee's, but in Westminster they then voted in favour of keeping prescriptions fee's in place in England...

The system sucks. We, the English, pay for everyone else's needs apart from those of our own. England needs a directly elected government that along with the other 3, then reports and answers to a central senate at Westminster.

That way we could all vote for our local and favoured voices in the regions, and then once every 5 or so years, also get to vote for a national Prime Minister and governing board. The candidates for those positions could all be elected from the regions and then fight it out for the top spot at national level for the votes of the nation as a whole. Limit each successful candidate to a maximum of 2 terms and Bob's your Uncle. Every region of the nation has representation and everyone gets to vote for a Prime Minister and not just for a Party.

That would also mean that there could also be a sizeable reduction in Career MP's as Business Leaders at local levels could also run for the regional committee's, and if successful, then choose to go for election at a national level.
 
#17
Guys, thanks for the comments so far, some really interesting points.

Never heard of this Central belt link with Labour before, can anyone explain further, its is just historic or is it to do the identity of the population?
 
#18
Seanie said:
Nationalism is not a left wing concept...
lefties seem to have no problem with anything righty if it's to the detriment of the UK, it's interests and culture: aggression from other countries a la Argentina - go for it, misogynist islamic stuff & stonings - moral equivalence trotted out and so on...
 
#19
heard_it_all_before said:
To even things out what we need is diffeent method of government. The Welsh, Jocks and N Irish have there's, but we, the English fund all 3 but have no representation for our own.

n Scotland the MSP's voted in favour of binning Prescription fee's, but in Westminster they then voted in favour of keeping prescriptions fee's in place in England...

The system sucks. We, the English, pay for everyone else's needs apart from those of our own. England needs a directly elected government that along with the other 3, then reports and answers to a central senate at Westminster.

That way we could all vote for our local and favoured voices in the regions, and then once every 5 or so years, also get to vote for a national Prime Minister and governing board. The candidates for those positions could all be elected from the regions and then fight it out for the top spot at national level for the votes of the nation as a whole. Limit each successful candidate to a maximum of 2 terms and Bob's your Uncle. Every region of the nation has representation and everyone gets to vote for a Prime Minister and not just for a Party.

That would also mean that there could also be a sizeable reduction in Career MP's as Business Leaders at local levels could also run for the regional committee's, and if successful, then choose to go for election at a national level.
This is because Scotland, Wales and NI cannot function if given financal independance. Its unfortunate but its the truth sadly. Although it may be democratically right for Scottish/Welsh people to have a say on only matters in thier country etc etc, the fact is Scotland/Wales/NI just does not have enough money to keep them is the same condition is it acustomed with if they all left the Union.
 
#20
jockster said:
This is because Scotland, Wales and NI cannot function if given financal independance. Its unfortunate but its the truth sadly. Although it may be democratically right for Scottish/Welsh people to have a say on only matters in thier country etc etc, the fact is Scotland/Wales/NI just does not have enough money to keep them is the same condition is it acustomed with if they all left the Union.
Doesn't this just underline the whole pointlessness of nationalism & devolution? Its bad enough the nationalists harking back to some mythical past that they've learnt from Hollywood, but what do they really expect from independence - apart from becoming first world basket cases even poorer than the other PIIGS?

Its easy to see Salmond and other nationalist leaders see themselves as national "leaders" inside the EU superstate, probably living off EU hand-outs and imagined "reparations" from the evil English - but, seriously, what do grown up Scots imagine they will achieve from a break up of the Union?
 

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