sniper cadre

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by jimmi1, Nov 27, 2006.

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  1. Do you have to be in your unit a set amount of time before you can do the sniper cadre?.
  2. You'd need to be in long enough to prove that you are a damn good shot and have very good fieldcraft skills.
  3. what unit are you in
  4. I suspect that you've got that bang on.
  5. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Used to have been a marksman with slr for minimum 3 years, that way you could be badged mksmn. Then be nominated for a place when available. Not every Bn had sniper plns or even sections so detaching troops for the course was an additional cost to the training budget which not all CO's would approve.
    With a lot more call for the job I suppose it is part of most bns establishments but My old Bn hadnt had an asslt pioneer pln for over 10 years and even then only double hatted 1 section per company.
    Money and time are the issues. You may be lucky like our sniper cadre in 85 when it was held in July?August 1985 at Kellys Garden. Of course at that time of year it was snowing in the Falklands and nearly no one volunteered, a few were co erced and one of the instructors was just about forced to take part. It was snowing heavily and there was no SASC or other examiner available to assess the lads after 6 weeks of crawling through the snow so they could be badged.
    Compare that to a TA unit that put a new bloke on the 2 week annual camp cadre at Tregantle and awarded his badge despite the fact that no one suitable to D Inf standards had assessed them and the red*rse could'nt even march up to the CO correctly and collect his badge!
    Kind of devalues the whole doing it properly thing now doesnt it?
  6. I think most battalions have got a sniper platoon now. I think my mate was with his battalion a couple of years before he went off and did his sniper course. He was/still is keen as 10 men. I think he was with his battalion less than a year when he got put into the COP prior to them deploying to NI on a 2 year residential.
    Earlier this year a plantie came top of the sniper course. Come on the planties.
  7. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Not sure about the mech Bns, they may have the trained troops and the kit on the shelf but not have the role in the current orbat.
    One of the things about the Arms plot was moving infantry Bns every 2 or so years. Whilst this kept most troops on their toes it did mean that specialisations could go stale such a sniper, close obs, asslt pnrs, heli ops trained pers etc. One of the downsides but perhaps the move to a permanent base and trickle posting of personnel will allow the expertise to remain even if the people do move on every 5 years or so.
    What on earth is an RE doing getting dirt on his combats. Should be directing the pioneer corps shouldnt he?
  8. 1 Royal Anglian are mech but they still have one. I think its because the snipers are proving very usefull in Iraq and Afghanistan. 12 Mech are covering Afghanistan next year so I should imagine that 1 Royal Anglian will make sure its blokes are trained up.
    The Corps has got a few sniper trained guys but they are few and far between. We do have several guys in the Army 100 but competition shooting is vastly different to sniping.
  9. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Makes sense!
  10. 5RRF have just been allowed to have a sniper role.

    Any ideas as to how training and qualifying TA snipers works?
  11. It dosent anymore .No sniper or sharp shooter cardes anymore for ta .
    Too much skill fade reason given.
  12. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    To be honest woody a 2 week course is barely long enough to test let alone train someone for those roles. The skills required cant be learnt, to be honest cant be taught in a 2 week course. The big problem with TA training is the 2 week limit on courses. If you are lucky to get on a regular 6 or 8 week course you really have to be on the dole to manage that. With continuation training in unit you really end up giving up all other skills for the duration of that role. No OC wants to let his dedicated turn up each weekend troops go off and train as a seperate team but thats whats needed fo each infantry specialist skill. 1 weekend per month follow upp and development in addition to 1 weekend per month for unit core skills. With a 3 year training cycle a unit with the right staff could possibly just make it provided no deployments or changes in leadership took place!
  13. But that's hardly surprising, because there isn't really a "Sniper Match" in the same way that there's Match 9 for all the GPMG(SF) types, or TASAM/CENTSAM (and the Army100 / TA50) for the section weapons.

    Target shooting certainly isn't sniping - although it's a very good way of understanding and improving marksmanship skills, and keeping up with the "state of the art".

    The McQueen (the "sniper match" at the Central Meeting) is a target shoot; albeit an extended watch and shoot at small, short exposure targets over as wide a frontage as the gallery range template allows, using a sniper rifle.

    I've taken drivers and pay clerks onto a range with an L96, and watched them knocking down Fig.12 at 400 within a few minutes. "Accurate enough for sniper" is far easier to achieve than "good enough fieldcraft for a sniper".

    Perhaps a tactical match in the spirit of Match 9 is the answer? You could do one for the mortar platoons too (in the spirit of KGVI for all the ex-UOTC types out there).

    This used to be done on "Sniper Concentrations" and "Mortar Concentrations" in UKLF and BAOR, but op tempo means that these are long gone.

    <Mount hobby horse>
    As ever, it's the difference between "Marksmanship", and "Weapon Handling". Unfortunately a lot of the less experienced don't quite understand that it's the two together that make up "Skill-at-Arms"; and a lot of less experienced instructors focus on the one and not the other.

    Add to that the fact that a lot of RCOs come off the range management course with safety-safety-safety drummed into them; but then forget that the whole point of rangework is to improve marksmanship. (Be honest - how many times have you heard the inexperienced RCO brief the troops so that the thing they remember is "right lads, today we're going to focus on firing standing unsupported" instead of "right lads, today I want to see safe weapon handling, rifles pointing down the range, I don't want any NDs"?). Combining the safety brief with the range brief has that effect.

    If the troops get the feeling that the instructors and coaches regard rangework "Main Effort" as an exercise in turning live to brass with the minimum of accidents, then don't be surprised if they can't hit a cow in the arrse with a banjo afterwards.

    Personal suggestion? Either make up a shooting team of your SAA instructors, or send your shooting team on SAA Instr and get them to teach. Competition shooting is a means to an end, not a source of glory for the few...

    ...and yes, those that know me will smile at that last line, but those that ever saw me running ranges will hopefully smile at the rest.
  14. The only way to have part time snipers would be establish a regional
    sniper platoon and thats all they would do .No headshed would allow that have his keenist blokes disappear pity really .An awful lot of blokes would be intrested might be an idea to run sharpshooter cardes and have the regulars
    lined up with ftrs forms for those who want to be snipers on end of course :twisted: .
    Match 9 may supposedly be a tactical shoot for the gpmg ,but,Its just testing skills not tactics.
  15. It's entirely up to your unit, many things may have different reasons for you being on the cadre or not. It really is a unit thing.

    It may depend on how long you've been in you unit, shooting skills, fieldcraft skills, smoker or non smoker, general soldiering skills and I DON'T mean drill or some other useless activity, how you've done on other field courses, would the unit be wasteing their time teaching you etc etc - the list goes on.

    Good Luck.