SNCO/NCO on Tour

#1
What are the thoughts out there towards SNCO/NCO's who are unable to go on an operational tour due to work/family/health reasons;

Do they;
Still have the repect of their peers?

Still have the ability to train/train with troops?

Should they;
Retrain to keep current (How do you train for someone shooting at you)?

Be moved on to enable troops to be led by someone with experience?

I know that there may be some w@nkers out there who do dodge, but this relates to the better NCO's who are still willing to put in the training time.
 
#2
Going back to the late 80s and early 90s before all the troubles in
the Middle East, we had a Sgt Maj who had not even be out to N.I and that was an infantry Regt.
Same situation as you’re talking about, we thought no different of him without operational experience, certainly no need to retrain.
As for the TA deployment bit, every soldier is in different circumstances
whether it is domestic, work, health issues, everyone plays their part in the bigger picture whether they deploy or not.
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#3
Discipline said:
Going back to the late 80s and early 90s before all the troubles in
the Middle East, we had a Sgt Maj who had not even be out to N.I and that was an infantry Regt.
Same situation as you’re talking about, we thought no different of him without operational experience, certainly no need to retrain.
As for the TA deployment bit, every soldier is in different circumstances
whether it is domestic, work, health issues, everyone plays their part in the bigger picture whether they deploy or not.
Not sure how you can take part in the bigger picture if you are unable to deploy and if you are unable to deploy to do a military commitment why would you be in the TA. I hope it is not just for the bounty :?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#4
vds01 said:
What are the thoughts out there towards SNCO/NCO's who are unable to go on an operational tour due to work/family/health reasons;

Do they;
Still have the repect of their peers?

Still have the ability to train/train with troops?

Should they;
Retrain to keep current (How do you train for someone shooting at you)?

Be moved on to enable troops to be led by someone with experience?

I know that there may be some w@nkers out there who do dodge, but this relates to the better NCO's who are still willing to put in the training time.
You've obvioulsy got a personal issue with this individual. Why don't you take it up with him face to face instead of trying see if others on here wil support your spiteful little campaign, you immature little man.

Or are you scared that he will he punch f*ck out of you if you do?
 
#5
elovabloke, bigger picture i.e. when a Btn or Reg get deployed they never all go. There is an abundance of tasks, jobs commitments back in unit,
If you do not deploy it does not mean you are not doing your part or giving the TA 100%
 
#6
Biscuits AB
Thanks for your considered reply.........

It is a question not a witch hunt.

What if I am the NCO in question (No I am not a bounty hunter....)

Let me guess your reply

Would it be "F@ck Off and stop wasting time & money"

Once again Thanks
 
G

Goku

Guest
#7
I met a few NCOs who haven’t been able to deploy for work related reasons (their employers won’t let them), there’s no shame in that and they’re still important assets to the TA. I think one of them has finally deployed now so good on him.
First and foremost family, work, and health must come before the TA.

Saying that I also know of someone whom strikes me as a complete tool who has admitted to trench dodging, but this person struck me as a tool before I found that out.
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#8
Discipline said:
elovabloke, bigger picture i.e. when a Btn or Reg get deployed they never all go. There is an abundance of tasks, jobs commitments back in unit,
If you do not deploy it does not mean you are not doing your part or giving the TA 100%
From that I take it that they may not be willing to deploy to an operational theatre but are willing to join an operation unit to act as rear party allowing those trained within the unit to deplot and carryout operational tasks? If they are not able to do either I am a little baffled as to why they would wish to undertake military training just to run around at the weekends doing it with the normal SAS elite :?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#9
vds01 said:
Biscuits AB
Thanks for your considered reply.........

It is a question not a witch hunt.

What if I am the NCO in question (No I am not a bounty hunter....)

Let me guess your reply

Would it be "F@ck Off and stop wasting time & money"

Once again Thanks
No need to thank me. Now off you go and 'consider' what it was you hoped to achieve here.

As for guessing my reply? Stop feeling sorry for yourself.
 
#10
Well if he is a good nco blokes should respect him anyway.Spending
6 months in iraq/afgan just to prove a point seems a bit odd.
If your asked to go repeatdly and cant go guess you have to have a word with yourself ,but, otherwise the ta needs all types .
 
#11
vds01 said:
What are the thoughts out there towards SNCO/NCO's who are unable to go on an operational tour due to work/family/health reasons;

Do they;
Still have the repect of their peers?

Still have the ability to train/train with troops?

Should they;
Retrain to keep current (How do you train for someone shooting at you)?

Be moved on to enable troops to be led by someone with experience?

I know that there may be some w@nkers out there who do dodge, but this relates to the better NCO's who are still willing to put in the training time.
Interesting question m8. There are perfectly legit reasons why some can't make it so wouldn't judge too much. The NCOs with experience both atts and ops were suitably intelligent to use their experience to the benefit of others and I recall never lauded it.
 
#12
I seems to me that as a SNCO it is unlikely that you will be required forl mobilised service.

msr
 
#13
MSR- Think again on that one old son.

In reply to the original post there is no easy answer. It depends on the bloke.

Though I will say I have come across people at all ranks who are unwilling to mobilise. There is a big difference between "unwilling" and "unable".

Unable = Family or work preclude it. But if the opportuntiy arose and circumstances permitted they would go. Obviously good people who do want to serve it whatever capacity possible.

Unwilling = Should leave and take up some other "casual" :pissedoff: occupation.

I would also suggest that there are all sorts of opportunities to deploy nowadays. It may not necessarily be in your arm or trade, but if you want to deploy the odds are with you.
 
#14
on the other hand it must be hard for a TA SNCO that hasn't done a tour in recent years. I know of JNCOs that have done 3 in different theatres, but being young 'uns they didn't have the same family or financial commitments as their elders. I don't think that "them and medal-wearing us" is going to be good for the moral of seniors who still deserve to be where they are.
 
#15
msr said:
I seems to me that as a SNCO it is unlikely that you will be required forl mobilised service.

msr
If you really want to do a tour, then surely you would drop a rank? I have caught out a number of people with rank with that comment. They then come out with another excuse why they can't do a tour!
 
#17
That is precisely my point. If a SNCO wants to and is able to deploy, then they can. It may not be "in role" but it will be in a post that is part of the ME and therefore vital.

I am still of the opinion that most lads and lasses in the TA want to do their bit, no matter where or how. Where we must not get confused is when an individual does not have any intention of deploying and dresses this up with all manner of excuses.
 
#18
Mr_McKay said:
That is precisely my point. If a SNCO wants to and is able to deploy, then they can. It may not be "in role" but it will be in a post that is part of the ME and therefore vital.

I am still of the opinion that most lads and lasses in the TA want to do their bit, no matter where or how. Where we must not get confused is when an individual does not have any intention of deploying and dresses this up with all manner of excuses.
Hear Hear; Well said that man, Good luck on the eastern front, I may see you out there towards the end of your tour as I have opted for the winter sports package this year. Stay safe. :wink:
 
#19
Just a few things:

SNCO tends to mean older and older tends to mean career and family pressures. If you wish anyone with a career and family to stay in then you have to be able to live with this fact. Or you can have the maximum rank in the TA as Cpl and run the rest with regs, or have the TA run by unemployable losers without girlfriends.

There is a world of difference between a soldier who won't volunteer right now and one who won't go if mobilised. The mobilisation system is designed so that soldiers who will have issues don't go unless they have to. Indeed, the CoC should actively weed out anyone who will have dramas from mobilising. If the CoC does its job then those who are clearly abusing the system should be binned.

Besides, if the system wants you you will go. No-one is letting the side down by being honest to the CoC about issues or appealing. Names can be put forward regardless of issues, appeals can be disallowed for operational reasons. And if a war breaks out then you can't appeal anyway. If they need you you will go, so don't screw your life up by messing the career and family around when you don't have to. After all, things change and you'll always get another chance when you can.

Finally, many employers and spouses will see volunteering for a tour as betrayal - I know mine do. Getting mobilised because I have to, well that's understood and accepted and been done once already. Volunteering when I don't have to and landing them in the clag, that's not.

The bottom line is, chuck out everyone who can't commit to volunteer at the drop of a hat for every Op going as the "I'm allier than you" contest in this thread would suggest and it's going to get awfully quiet.
 
#20
OK probably going to open a can of worms here but why oh why is the TA seem so obsessed with getting everyone to do a tour ? Why is is that there is this belief that if you join up you MUST !!!!! deploy a few months after finishing training ? Its good to see guys geared up and ready to go on tour but why the obsession in people who don't go on tours ? I know this is the new TA and I know we should be doing our bit but it should not be ht ebe all and end all of TA service, its not like that in the regs, not even now.

Don't get me wrong in the regs when a tour came about. if someone shirked it, and believe me there were plenty of guys trying their luck and they were generally dispised, but not having a gong on your chest did not mean that you couldn't command soldiers who had. I was lucky in going straight to NI straight from basic training, which meant I had a huge advantage over many in the Regiment that hadn't, in fact I used to get chastised in 2's by the overwhelming majority that were bare chested, being called a "poser" and "war hero", I've also came accross many senior rnaks and officers (a WO2 and CO included) that had no opertional bedal and there were none of the hang ups we seem to have now.

Also how useful is op experience ? I remember training for Bosnia once where a comment was made about a guy who had just got his full screw, I had mine for a few years, the claim was that he should lead a det not I becuase he had more Operational experince, I was confused about this as we had the same number of tours its just I did back to back NI tours as a Team commander whereas he did Cyprus in a tower, GPMG gunner in NI and sat in the rear with the gear on Granby, lots of gongs do not mean lots of experience. Don't forget that role on Ops is often different to role in unit, I mean who would you want you teaching you about Radio Rebro ? A SNCO with years of experience in Radio Rebro or a Full Screw with back to back FP tours ?

The TA has GOT to get its head above this current fad of mobilisation, what happens if we hand over a chunk of Bosnia, start to withdraw from Iraq and win the battle with the Taleban ? What if the TA is not needed anymore and everyone is physked to go out ?
 
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