'Smart' Motorways, an accident waiting to happen?

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
And yet another of the ARRSE stalking weirdos makes an appearance! It's Really Basic Mong Khunt himself.:p

Still, at least you have yet another of my posts that you can "dumb", eh, you moronic, obsessive ghunt!

MsG
Do you own a car?
Do you have a current UK driving license?
How many miles do you drive per year?
When was the last time you actually drove on a motorway?

Why is German experience relevant to driving in the UK?

I own 2 cars, I drive over 20k miles per year, mainly on business and a lot of this on motorways. I've held a UK driving license since 1979 and I've never had any points on it.

you on the other hand, get the bus from Gregory Boulevard to Old Market Square on a Saturday morning to peddle your communist drivel.

I only "dumb" the your posts which show your complete lack of knowledge.
 
If you don't speed you don't get fined. You also have less chance of having a crash.

If you reduce the speed to 20mph almost all crashes will be avoidable/survivable.
What you mean is, that its reasonable for some people to die because you don't want to drive at a slow pace.
No, what I'm saying is that by reducing all speed limits to 20mph, you reduce the utility of roads so much, that they become pointless, because it would take so long to get anywhere.

If you want nobody to die in RTAs, then ban cars. Or you accept a level of risk that is tolerable.

WRT Smart Motorways, the additional risk of not having hard shoulders is not worth the benefit.
 

anglo

LE
The shit drivers are the bellends who cant brake for a vehicle that has stopped in front of them. How do people manage on a motorway when cars stop for any reason?

If you break down in any lane apart from the hard shoulder how do you manage?

How do you manage when you breakdown anywhere else without a hard shoulder?

"If you break down in any lane apart from the hard shoulder how do you manage?"

You can generally make it to the hard shoulder, if there's no hard shoulder you can't,
as in smart motorways

"How do you manage when you break down anywhere else without a hard shoulder?"

There's not four lines of high speed traffic to deal with,

If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?
 
If you don't speed you don't get fined. You also have less chance of having a crash.

If you reduce the speed to 20mph almost all crashes will be avoidable/survivable.
What you mean is, that its reasonable for some people to die because you don't want to drive at a slow pace.
How does that work on roads with a 20mph limit.
 

wheel

LE
Off the top of my head..

1) Require people to prove they can drive on a motorway before we let them drive on them. You can get your licence and immediately drive at 70mph down a motorway despite no-one ever giving you any instruction or examining your ability to do it safely. You can't drive down a 30mph road past a school or a NSL dual carriageway without it but you can on a motorway for some reason.
2) Stop allowing people to drive on foreign licences for extended periods. e.g: You can pass you test in India by driving 50 yards, turning left and stopping, and this entitles you to drive in the UK for 12 months. Mexico doesn't even require a test to be taken, but you can drive in the UK for 12 months.
3) Require a refresher test every 10 years at the same time as renewing your driving licence. Things change over time, some people who are driving now passed their tests before motorways even existed in the UK. One of the problems with smart motorways is that people who don't often use them don't understand what they are or how they work.
4) Have dedicated traffic police, and more of them. And not dragged off to fill holes elsewhere. How often do you see police out on patrol or acting as a visual deterrent compared to a decade or two ago. Multiple studies have shown that the chances of being caught have a larger impact on people behaviour than the penalties for being caught.
5) Stop relying on technology to police the roads. If your vehicle is taxed, insured and you slow down for speed cameras your chance of being caught for drink/drug/dangerous driving/texting is virtually nil. Even if caught on dashcam you're unlikely to be prosecuted - one look at the amount of dashcam footage uploaded to the internet shows the amount of times the police haven't done anything as the driver couldn't be identified.

In a normal year I do about 50-60k, mostly on the motorways. I see the benefits of the smoother flowing traffic and reduced delays they've brought.
All very good and sensible ideas and I would not argue against any one of them. They still do not provide the amount of safety that a hard shoulder does in the unfortunate event of a break down.
60K miles a year divided by average working days per year of 260 = 230.7 miles a day. Are you a truck driver ?.
 

anglo

LE
Off the top of my head..

1) Require people to prove they can drive on a motorway before we let them drive on them. You can get your licence and immediately drive at 70mph down a motorway despite no-one ever giving you any instruction or examining your ability to do it safely. You can't drive down a 30mph road past a school or a NSL dual carriageway without it but you can on a motorway for some reason.
2) Stop allowing people to drive on foreign licences for extended periods. e.g: You can pass you test in India by driving 50 yards, turning left and stopping, and this entitles you to drive in the UK for 12 months. Mexico doesn't even require a test to be taken, but you can drive in the UK for 12 months.
3) Require a refresher test every 10 years at the same time as renewing your driving licence. Things change over time, some people who are driving now passed their tests before motorways even existed in the UK. One of the problems with smart motorways is that people who don't often use them don't understand what they are or how they work.
4) Have dedicated traffic police, and more of them. And not dragged off to fill holes elsewhere. How often do you see police out on patrol or acting as a visual deterrent compared to a decade or two ago. Multiple studies have shown that the chances of being caught have a larger impact on people behaviour than the penalties for being caught.
5) Stop relying on technology to police the roads. If your vehicle is taxed, insured and you slow down for speed cameras your chance of being caught for drink/drug/dangerous driving/texting is virtually nil. Even if caught on dashcam you're unlikely to be prosecuted - one look at the amount of dashcam footage uploaded to the internet shows the amount of times the police haven't done anything as the driver couldn't be identified.

In a normal year I do about 50-60k, mostly on the motorways. I see the benefits of the smoother flowing traffic and reduced delays they've brought.
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
I've held a UK driving license since 1979 and I've never had any points on it.
Oh,sure. I bet you used to go for regular kickabouts with Stanley Matthews too.:lol::lol::lol:

MsG
 
Have you seen the amount of accidents in car parks where most twats are only doing 10 mph.

People rarely die though
 
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?

How do you reach a safe area if your car breaks down in any part of the motorway except the hard shoulder?
Or if it breaks down on a dual carriage way?

Also they have various versions of smart motorways across Europe without to many spastics struggling
 

anglo

LE
How do you reach a safe area if your car breaks down in any part of the motorway except the hard shoulder?
Or if it breaks down on a dual carriage way?

Also they have various versions of smart motorways across Europe without to many spastics struggling
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?
 
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?

Is there something a matter with you? What if you break down in the fast/middle/slow lane and you cant move your car? What if you break down on dual carriage? How do you manage in a way that you cant seem to manage on a smart motorway?
 
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?
One of the really annoying things about motorway driving in the U.K. is appalling lane discipline (see threads above about ********* given driving licences).
One of the reasons for staying left was always proximity to a safety zone.
Now there isn’t one (apart from the odd refuge area, and who knows where they are?), why change lane at all?
 
One of the really annoying things about motorway driving in the U.K. is appalling lane discipline (see threads above about ********* given driving licences).
One of the reasons for staying left was always proximity to a safety zone.
Now there isn’t one (apart from the odd refuge area, and who knows where they are?), why change lane at all?

Do most people sit in the left lane for the safety? Because on every motorway I've been on, most cars are in the centre or fast lane.
 

wheel

LE
One of the really annoying things about motorway driving in the U.K. is appalling lane discipline (see threads above about ********* given driving licences).
One of the reasons for staying left was always proximity to a safety zone.
Now there isn’t one (apart from the odd refuge area, and who knows where they are?), why change lane at all?
I am like @RBMK and prefer not to drive in the nearside lane on smart motorways unless I have a very good view that it is clear a long way ahead.
 

anglo

LE
Is there something a matter with you? What if you break down in the fast/middle/slow lane and you cant move your car? What if you break down on dual carriage? How do you manage in a way that you cant seem to manage on a smart motorway?
I'll ask again,
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?

"Is there something a matter with you?"

I see you're getting agitated with my simple question
all you've got to do is answer the question
 
I'll ask again,
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?

"Is there something a matter with you?"

I see you're getting agitated with my simple question
all you've got to do is answer the question

If you break down on a normal motorway you cant reach a safe area, because you have broken down, its no different so why would I be more happy/unhappy if I broke down somewhere else? Its just the same.

Im not agitated, Im used to pointing out the obvious to people who cant cope with the most simplest of things on ARRSE.
 

anglo

LE
If you break down on a normal motorway you cant reach a safe area, because you have broken down, its no different so why would I be more happy/unhappy if I broke down somewhere else? Its just the same.

Im not agitated, Im used to pointing out the obvious to people who cant cope with the most simplest of things on ARRSE.
I'll ask again,
If you break down on a smart motorway, you can't reach a safe area,
and you have to sit in a hot lane,
I take it that you're happy with that?
 
Do most people sit in the left lane for the safety? Because on every motorway I've been on, most cars are in the centre or fast lane.
We are just like every European country in that we have lots of HGVs on our motorways. Most of ours are three or four lanes. Blessed we are indeed.
One of the precepts of staying left unless overtaking was to enable one to pull over should trouble occur. It has the benefit of allowing others to make progress.
Keep aware, and anticipate the road. Easy
For context, the scariest motorway journey I have undertaken was with a colleague who stayed in lane two of the M40 all the way to our destination “because it‘s safer in the middle”.
 

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