'Smart' Motorways, an accident waiting to happen?

The best solution to Smart motorways is autonomous vehicles, that removes the problem element from the equation - the meatbag at the wheel.

I would happily have an EV, but the only suitable vehicles are £50k+ (iPace, Model 5, Etron, EQC).
Now whilst I could stretch to one, the costs currently outweigh the benefits (I have better things to spend my money on). So I will be sticking with dino-juice for the now.
But longer term I am seriously looking at the Honda E. It would fit my working pattern, the office has parking (&charging) for EVs, Plus I have plenty of space on my drive to charge them.

Which made me think of the more fundamental problem with EVs. How are many many people going to charge them? Unless you have off road parking, are we going to have extension cables draped across pavements, hedges etc?

@Cold_Collation - As for diesel, I've recently swapped out of diesel and back to petrol and we are swapping Mrs KoR over to petrol too.
3 -4 years ago I was buying a Merc and I told the salesman I was also looking at petrol, he scoffed and gave it plenty of oh no mate, diesel blah blah.

I said to him, you mark my words, the govt is going to **** diesel drivers over in the next few years, soon as it becomes politically expedient and an opportunity to milk more cash out of motoring.
And low, Bristol wants to ban diesels, Manchester is making similar noises etc. It won't matter what Euro 4/5/6/X you are. Diesel resale values have already taken a little hit, the writing as they say..........
 
No need. The EV divergence is at the heart of the debate. The so called smart motorway has emerged as a cheapskate way of handling larger volumes of traffic than ordinary motorways.

An alternative approach would, of course, be to reduce demand. Use vehicles less. Have fewer vehicles. The change to non ice power offers the opportunity to have a rethink about our relationship with vehicles.
With that in mind we are looking at back hauling in more depth.

Traditionally we deliver our manufactured food products to customers, our raw material suppliers deliver their product in to us.
We are now negotiating factory gate prices from a lot of those supplier with the intention of collecting

Aim being to reduce the 45% of our journeys where the vehicle is empty. In turn this will reduce the amount of vehicles/miles coming in to our factory.

That;s the green option really.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
The best solution to Smart motorways is autonomous vehicles, that removes the problem element from the equation - the meatbag at the wheel.

I would happily have an EV, but the only suitable vehicles are £50k+ (iPace, Model 5, Etron, EQC).
Now whilst I could stretch to one, the costs currently outweigh the benefits (I have better things to spend my money on). So I will be sticking with dino-juice for the now.
But longer term I am seriously looking at the Honda E. It would fit my working pattern, the office has parking (&charging) for EVs, Plus I have plenty of space on my drive to charge them.

Which made me think of the more fundamental problem with EVs. How are many many people going to charge them? Unless you have off road parking, are we going to have extension cables draped across pavements, hedges etc?

@Cold_Collation - As for diesel, I've recently swapped out of diesel and back to petrol and we are swapping Mrs KoR over to petrol too.
3 -4 years ago I was buying a Merc and I told the salesman I was also looking at petrol, he scoffed and gave it plenty of oh no mate, diesel blah blah.

I said to him, you mark my words, the govt is going to **** diesel drivers over in the next few years, soon as it becomes politically expedient and an opportunity to milk more cash out of motoring.
And low, Bristol wants to ban diesels, Manchester is making similar noises etc. It won't matter what Euro 4/5/6/X you are. Diesel resale values have already taken a little hit, the writing as they say..........
Why’re you picking on me? I never even mentioned diesel.
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
It's going to cost much more to charge all those EVs now. From being cheaper than petrol or diesel per mile, it's going to become more expensive: EV charging costs going up by over 500%

So not only more expensive to buy, they're going to cost more to use. The only advantage (financially) over ICE will be the reduced cost of servicing and maintenance. And with the number of people who cannot recharge their EV at home (because they don't have a garage or driveway) this is, I feel, going to have a big impact on those who were considering buying an EV and planning on charging them at a local charging station.
 

TamH70

MIA
It's going to cost much more to charge all those EVs now. From being cheaper than petrol or diesel per mile, it's going to become more expensive: EV charging costs going up by over 500%

So not only more expensive to buy, they're going to cost more to use. The only advantage (financially) over ICE will be the reduced cost of servicing and maintenance. And with the number of people who cannot recharge their EV at home (because they don't have a garage or driveway) this is, I feel, going to have a big impact on those who were considering buying an EV and planning on charging them at a local charging station.
I hate to say this but this is hilarious. The weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth of the tree-hugging hippy bastards across Europe will be joyous to listen to. And that's leaving out the car companies who've gone all-in on electric vehicles. They must be wanting to eviscerate IONITY's board members with a spoon because it will hurt more.

If this trend increases, then I foresee a rise in the implementation of hydrogen-fuel-cell powered cars, and electric vehicles sales to take a plummet off of a very steep cliff.
 
It's going to cost much more to charge all those EVs now. From being cheaper than petrol or diesel per mile, it's going to become more expensive: EV charging costs going up by over 500%

So not only more expensive to buy, they're going to cost more to use. The only advantage (financially) over ICE will be the reduced cost of servicing and maintenance. And with the number of people who cannot recharge their EV at home (because they don't have a garage or driveway) this is, I feel, going to have a big impact on those who were considering buying an EV and planning on charging them at a local charging station.
That's daft that is. There needs to be more incentive to buy and use them.
 

Truxx

LE
With that in mind we are looking at back hauling in more depth.

Traditionally we deliver our manufactured food products to customers, our raw material suppliers deliver their product in to us.
We are now negotiating factory gate prices from a lot of those supplier with the intention of collecting

Aim being to reduce the 45% of our journeys where the vehicle is empty. In turn this will reduce the amount of vehicles/miles coming in to our factory.
R
That;s the green option really.
Stobarts have a no empty truck policy
 
It's going to cost much more to charge all those EVs now. From being cheaper than petrol or diesel per mile, it's going to become more expensive: EV charging costs going up by over 500%

So not only more expensive to buy, they're going to cost more to use. The only advantage (financially) over ICE will be the reduced cost of servicing and maintenance. And with the number of people who cannot recharge their EV at home (because they don't have a garage or driveway) this is, I feel, going to have a big impact on those who were considering buying an EV and planning on charging them at a local charging station.
Funnily enough the IER (Who accepts "donations" from the coal/gas/oil industry)

Are not really telling the whole story
 
Stobarts have a no empty truck policy

The bigger you are the easier that is.

In our case we are running very time sensetive deliveries, daily. No overnight work and vehicle/driver must be back on site within his hours to reload the next day.
We are also restricted on what goods we can carry, chilled or ambient only and no uncooked products. We also have to be careful on allergens, because our factory is nut free etc then so must be our vehicles.
Over Christmas we've opened another distribution hub in the Midlands which greatly aids the idea. We have ambient warehousing there and have expanded the amount of vehicles we have in the south, once its O Licenced we also have far greater reach on tacho hours than we currently do.

We are actively pursuing it though and I reckon we can cut our empty running from 45% to 25-30% by the summer.
 

Truxx

LE
The bigger you are the easier that is.

In our case we are running very time sensetive deliveries, daily. No overnight work and vehicle/driver must be back on site within his hours to reload the next day.
We are also restricted on what goods we can carry, chilled or ambient only and no uncooked products. We also have to be careful on allergens, because our factory is nut free etc then so must be our vehicles.
Over Christmas we've opened another distribution hub in the Midlands which greatly aids the idea. We have ambient warehousing there and have expanded the amount of vehicles we have in the south, once its O Licenced we also have far greater reach on tacho hours than we currently do.

We are actively pursuing it though and I reckon we can cut our empty running from 45% to 25-30% by the summer.
Agreed.

We do business with Elldis, they try but fail except for a couple of trailers out of 200. Funnily enough their view was thqat changes to the way drivers hours are done would make a world of difference for them. Not sure how...
 
Agreed.

We do business with Elldis, they try but fail except for a couple of trailers out of 200. Funnily enough their view was thqat changes to the way drivers hours are done would make a world of difference for them. Not sure how...

The trouble for us is that customers can and do order up to 14.00hrs every day
We then deliver according time window anywhere from 02.00-10.00hrs the following morning.
That's from order, production, picking, dispatch to delivery in around 18 hours for most customers. Some as little as 12 hours.

We cover as far up as Glasgow and as far down as London on our own vehicles, further afield by courier, practically speaking on HGV's you can't do more than 450 miles a day and for us those vehicles have to be back in our yard ready to reload. by the end of the drivers shift.
we occasionally have to rescue drivers out of hours but seldom more that 30 minutes away from home. Used to be more common until we re-mapped the lorries doing longer runs

When it gets really entertaining is when we have some of the major sporting events to cover, some of them absorb two lorries for a week.

We are expanding our footprint though, I've been looking at small units in Cumbria over the last few weeks and will probably look at the west country after that.
 
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The bigger you are the easier that is.

In our case we are running very time sensetive deliveries, daily. No overnight work and vehicle/driver must be back on site within his hours to reload the next day.
We are also restricted on what goods we can carry, chilled or ambient only and no uncooked products. We also have to be careful on allergens, because our factory is nut free etc then so must be our vehicles.
Over Christmas we've opened another distribution hub in the Midlands which greatly aids the idea. We have ambient warehousing there and have expanded the amount of vehicles we have in the south, once its O Licenced we also have far greater reach on tacho hours than we currently do.

We are actively pursuing it though and I reckon we can cut our empty running from 45% to 25-30% by the summer.
I have no idea about UK regs, but is it possible to have temp "pop-up" warehouses/ tents with chillers for storing/ distributing goods? Can even be in parking lots of existing owned properties/ hired properties.

No long term commitment, varies according to demand/ season...just a thought.
 

Tyk

LE
I hate to say this but this is hilarious. The weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth of the tree-hugging hippy bastards across Europe will be joyous to listen to. And that's leaving out the car companies who've gone all-in on electric vehicles. They must be wanting to eviscerate IONITY's board members with a spoon because it will hurt more.

If this trend increases, then I foresee a rise in the implementation of hydrogen-fuel-cell powered cars, and electric vehicles sales to take a plummet off of a very steep cliff.
Battery electric is never likely to be practical, range, charging times, availability of charging locations and above all generating capacity. It works while the numbers are small and for motorists that have a convenient driving requirement, but not for the rest. Being realistic (ignoring HGV's that are a whole other ball game) fuel cells are the only sensible long term solution if they really want the end of petrol and diesel for cars and vans. HGV's needing the pulling capacity of diesel will take a fair bit of development and batteries are never going to cut it.

The only real solution to the motorway problem is to give people sensible, reliable, quick, frequent, comfortable and cheap ways to travel that aren't cars as the demand on the roads is way higher than they can cope with. Of course having people work remotely would help, but a lot of employers wouldn't accept that even if their business could do it and a lot of the people couldn't do it as they either have to be stood over to be productive or they can't cope away from the work/office environment.
 
I have no idea about UK regs, but is it possible to have temp "pop-up" warehouses/ tents with chillers for storing/ distributing goods? Can even be in parking lots of existing owned properties/ hired properties.

No long term commitment, varies according to demand/ season...just a thought.
Sort of. If you look at a major event like Cheltenham Gold Cup over half of their facilities are temporary. From 3 story temprary buildings to stores and bars.
But its expensive, very expensive. Its cheaper to actually lease a property and set it up to operate year round
 

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