I am a TA officer serving with an Infantry Bn. We are on operations and you would think that this would bring out the best in their soldiering skills. To my dismay, I have had the misfortune to serve with quite possibly the worst group of so called "professional" officers i have ever seen. Their unimaginative and slipshod approach to what could quite possibly be a malign environment has amazed me. In the TA we routinely maintain high standards through training and decisive leadership, something it seems regular officers are not prepared to do. There is something about a TA officer, and i think more and more regulars are beginning to realise that we can hold our own (and even eclipse their efforts). During my attachment I have regularly put my subordinates under as much pressure as possible. I believe that they would only laze around if not. They often fail to put in returns on time and have questioned my orders. They will soon learn because i intend to carve a name for myself in this mans Army.
Slipping Standards In The Regulars
- Thread starter Fatty
- Start date
Jip Travolta
LE
If they've questioned your orders, then perhaps your orders are.......'questionable'.......
F - you show 'em! What's the point of a regular army nowadays, if they only do garrison duty in foreign sh**holes anyway? On the few ocasions when fighting is required, we can always use the Paras (well, that's the Govt Line anyway - God knows we can't let them loose in the UK anway).
I can't wait 'til Ma_sonic sees this thread! never thought I'd be saying this!
I can't wait 'til Ma_sonic sees this thread! never thought I'd be saying this!
woopert
LE
The opinions expressed on this site are entirely that of the contributor and are not endorsed by either the moderators of this facility, the British Army, The Ministry of Defence, or HM Government. Some posts may be the opposite of what they seem in that they are posted to illicit or provoke a response, and as such caution should be used before responding. As the contributors to this facility are anonymous the forum moderators take no responsibility for the content of posts, or the intentions of the poster unless its really funny in which case we will probably try and take the credit. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is likely to be bloody funny!
Fatty,
Do us all a favour and fcuk off
Woopert, you're right, this twat is on Sharkwatch, effective immediate.
Funny, I'm sure if good and Bad CO did an IP lookup, it'd point straight at a UK provider.
Knobber
If you're Regular on a windup, grow up, you're not fit to wear long pants, never mind a Crown.
If you really are serving, I'd take an early P45, because if that's the sum total of your leadership ability, then you can expect a fragging at H-Hour+1second.
Bad/Good Co's, feel free to delete this post
Do us all a favour and fcuk off
Woopert, you're right, this twat is on Sharkwatch, effective immediate.
Funny, I'm sure if good and Bad CO did an IP lookup, it'd point straight at a UK provider.
Knobber
If you're Regular on a windup, grow up, you're not fit to wear long pants, never mind a Crown.
If you really are serving, I'd take an early P45, because if that's the sum total of your leadership ability, then you can expect a fragging at H-Hour+1second.
Bad/Good Co's, feel free to delete this post
I didn't say thingy, blimey, now I got Verdi-Itis
I said fcukingKnobhead
I said fcukingKnobhead
I couldn't agree more with 4 of the posts above and I've never come to a stronger conclusion that Fattw@t must be on glue. PTP is no doubt close to the bull when he says the IP address is UK based. If this guy is genuine though I have nothing but pity for his lads. When guys are on Ops they have downtime. They sleep. Eat. W@nk.Talk sh1t. whatever. This lardarse probably sees this and gets on his high horse trying to brown nose his superiors. Anyone who shows such outright modesty of their supposed ability and puts down everyone else around them is obviously a danger not only to himself but those around him. He would no doubt find that the reason his returns are late in is because his guys are getting fcuked round with his bone taskings. And Eagle is right. Orders questioned! If they are operational orders and they're being questioned by the lads on the ground then they are probably bad orders. A lot of officers who have limited capability on the ground and who have a natural tendency to brown nose and bluff and bluster to make up for this shortfall, make arse orders on a regular basis. It's only natural for the guys on the ground to question these orders if they are ridiculous. which, no doubt, they are. I feel sorry for the TA guys here, who since posting on this site I have had increasing respect for their attitude and commitment, if you are a representative of the state of their officers. And I know you're not because some of the others who post here come across very well. This site isn't the place to tell the world how great you are. Try "whyarechaps sh1ttinginmymaggot.com"
Gas Gas Gas
LE
I have the horrible feeling that I may share the same capbadge as Fatty. I get the impression that Fatty has probably never served outside a TA unit and as such is having a culture shock. It is a shame that pig ignorant post like this provides ammunition to the like of (old style) Ma_Sonic with which to beat the TA in general.
[Ma - much impressed by the improved quality of your posts.]
[Ma - much impressed by the improved quality of your posts.]
Bow_Man
War Hero
There are 2 points to note on this post.
1. If per chance you happen to be a soldier providing what you consider to be a highly "entertaining"post to this board and in the process back handedly slagging off your Coy 2ic/OC, then you are going about it the wrong way. If this individual is as "harsh" as you're making out and everyone hates him, then believe me the mess is fully aware already. Also you should note that you're not doing your own battalion any favours nor this site.
2. If per chance this is a actually a factually correct posting. Then take note. We actually don't want to hear about the shortcomings of your battalion. And if you think that after slagging off most of the officers and soldiers of said battalion that you're going to get any further work I wouldn't count my chickens.
On an additional note. I have had the opportunity to serve with a number of Officers and soldiers on FTRS, some have been appalling (two officers in particular) whilst some have been very good. I dare say that this is equally the case with regular officers and soldiers.
The intriguing point about this post is still the TA regular debate. Having served in an Ops Office of a TA Regiment as a PSI, I can hand on heart say that we used to pack as much stuff into a weekend or camp as we could. Having worked also in an Ops Office of a Regular Unit and having been through years of training etc, the ethos for exercise is to train for war. Note in a regular unit when your not doing anything during exercise, then your squaring away admin, cleaning your gat or sleeping. The lull in battle is as critical to those that fight as the fighting itself, especially as we have now moved to a 24 hr battlefield. So if the above post was serious, please take note... you are not acting professionally if you think that your soldiers and officers should be out doing something 24 hrs a day, they need down time as much as anyone else, otherwise things will start to go wrong (I dare say the lack of returns may be just the start) and possibly a major disaster will occur.
1. If per chance you happen to be a soldier providing what you consider to be a highly "entertaining"post to this board and in the process back handedly slagging off your Coy 2ic/OC, then you are going about it the wrong way. If this individual is as "harsh" as you're making out and everyone hates him, then believe me the mess is fully aware already. Also you should note that you're not doing your own battalion any favours nor this site.
2. If per chance this is a actually a factually correct posting. Then take note. We actually don't want to hear about the shortcomings of your battalion. And if you think that after slagging off most of the officers and soldiers of said battalion that you're going to get any further work I wouldn't count my chickens.
On an additional note. I have had the opportunity to serve with a number of Officers and soldiers on FTRS, some have been appalling (two officers in particular) whilst some have been very good. I dare say that this is equally the case with regular officers and soldiers.
The intriguing point about this post is still the TA regular debate. Having served in an Ops Office of a TA Regiment as a PSI, I can hand on heart say that we used to pack as much stuff into a weekend or camp as we could. Having worked also in an Ops Office of a Regular Unit and having been through years of training etc, the ethos for exercise is to train for war. Note in a regular unit when your not doing anything during exercise, then your squaring away admin, cleaning your gat or sleeping. The lull in battle is as critical to those that fight as the fighting itself, especially as we have now moved to a 24 hr battlefield. So if the above post was serious, please take note... you are not acting professionally if you think that your soldiers and officers should be out doing something 24 hrs a day, they need down time as much as anyone else, otherwise things will start to go wrong (I dare say the lack of returns may be just the start) and possibly a major disaster will occur.
I'm truely shocked by the abuse that you have given my thoughts on this board. It saddens me to say but it is symptomatic of the streak of cowardice that is currently running through the army. You all seem to be rushing to the defence of the soldiers when all I am trying to achieve is results. Yes results through hard work, but that is what they get their pay for anyway. we are moving towards a softly-softly approach in the way we treat our soldiers now and mark my words, it will get worse. I now find barriers at every turn when trying to charge someone.
You should all have more moral courage and realise that the army is in decline due to the yes-man ure that has evolved. Not one of you seems to be prepared to push the troops to achieve the aim but instead let's worry about their welfare fist and achieve the mission if we have time.
Yes, I'm ranting again but I know I shouldn't, you are all probably merely Priavtes or NCOs trying to get a rise out of me.
You should all have more moral courage and realise that the army is in decline due to the yes-man ure that has evolved. Not one of you seems to be prepared to push the troops to achieve the aim but instead let's worry about their welfare fist and achieve the mission if we have time.
Yes, I'm ranting again but I know I shouldn't, you are all probably merely Priavtes or NCOs trying to get a rise out of me.
Gas Gas Gas
LE
I have had the honour of holding the Queen's commission for 24 years as of next month. If you really are an Officer, I am disappointed in the quality & tone of your posts. If you show the same contempt to the men under your command as you do in the quote above no wonder you are not respected.
Sh1tting on those under your command just because you can is not the sign of true leadership. You lead by example and thereby gain respect. Putting subordinates under unnecessary pressure is not advancing the Army's cause one bit - save to help increase the exodus of trained soldiers from the Army. There is a right way and a wrong way to improve the overall quality of soldiers under command. Rifting them solely to enhance your our position and "career" (such as it is) is not one of them.
woopert
LE
Fatty' I'll treat your post seriously because good bad or indifferent, you have made a point that should be disucussed.
We have to recognise in any environment that the world has moved on in the past few years (certainly a lot under the current government) that has necessitated a review of the way we treat people. In a prosperous age of technology we cannot compete for the brightest and best to join the armed forces if we do not recognise that we must look after the individual who joins up. If a bright 18 year old can earn more and be looked after better at Microsoft he is hardly likely to join the forces. We have to meet this challenge head on.
So what does this mean? Yes we must look again at our standards of fitness on entry and spend longer building the individual up to a standard. If you were to ask a Sgt in the 50's if he thought the recruits he was training were as tough or as fit as in his day, he would most likely say no. This is a fact of life. Standards will change, and the opportunity cost of the army not changing is a fall in recruiting. This is acceptable with elite units where demand for places will always outdo the supply (places available in the regiment). For the rank and file infantry however, this is a very real problem.
The challenge for the officers in todays army is to lead their men in such a way as to motivate them to want to achieve. Any unit is only as good as the officer in charge. The officer who looks after his men, leads his men by example from the front, and who supports his men will have a strong cohesive unit. A poor CO does not equate to a poor Pl or Coy if the officers that command those sub units are strong. While we all get frustrated from time to time, taking it out on the troops is not the way forward. many have worries of their own, family pressures, money worries and so on. Any unit needs a bit of slack and down time so that the guys can prepare themselves for the next busy period. The human body can also only perform at 110% for so long, and the good commander will recognise this and push his men hard only when it is absolutely necessary to do so.
As for being "yes" men, what must be recognised is that there are times when saying no for the aske of saying no will get you no-where. There are times and places for any fight with the heirarchy and while it might not be obvious to you, those up the chain of command may be exercising their judgement. As well as knowing your men intimately, you must also know your commander's and your commander's mind. This takes time and effort.
Respect is earned, often labouriously. Like credibility it takes a long time to achieve it and seconds of ill-judgement to loose it. You ask why your post was treated with disdain? The points were poor, you presented a poor image of yourself as a tyrant and the answer to all of the army's woes in your first post on this forum. If you really are all that and a bag of chips, then this will be recognised not only in your work but also by the people who use this forum regularly as what you say will be intelligent, insightful, and well argued. boasting about your men fearing you was not a good start. Saying you are in Bosnia when you are not didn't help your cause either (look to the left of the screen you will see the word "moderator" under my nickname, we can see where you post from, your ip address and all of your registration details and more besides). And for the record, no were are not all private soldiers trying to take the rise out of you. As for the mods, some of us are officers, (DE and LE), some NCOs, and some JNCOs. We even have a civilian to keep our perspective.
We have to recognise in any environment that the world has moved on in the past few years (certainly a lot under the current government) that has necessitated a review of the way we treat people. In a prosperous age of technology we cannot compete for the brightest and best to join the armed forces if we do not recognise that we must look after the individual who joins up. If a bright 18 year old can earn more and be looked after better at Microsoft he is hardly likely to join the forces. We have to meet this challenge head on.
So what does this mean? Yes we must look again at our standards of fitness on entry and spend longer building the individual up to a standard. If you were to ask a Sgt in the 50's if he thought the recruits he was training were as tough or as fit as in his day, he would most likely say no. This is a fact of life. Standards will change, and the opportunity cost of the army not changing is a fall in recruiting. This is acceptable with elite units where demand for places will always outdo the supply (places available in the regiment). For the rank and file infantry however, this is a very real problem.
The challenge for the officers in todays army is to lead their men in such a way as to motivate them to want to achieve. Any unit is only as good as the officer in charge. The officer who looks after his men, leads his men by example from the front, and who supports his men will have a strong cohesive unit. A poor CO does not equate to a poor Pl or Coy if the officers that command those sub units are strong. While we all get frustrated from time to time, taking it out on the troops is not the way forward. many have worries of their own, family pressures, money worries and so on. Any unit needs a bit of slack and down time so that the guys can prepare themselves for the next busy period. The human body can also only perform at 110% for so long, and the good commander will recognise this and push his men hard only when it is absolutely necessary to do so.
As for being "yes" men, what must be recognised is that there are times when saying no for the aske of saying no will get you no-where. There are times and places for any fight with the heirarchy and while it might not be obvious to you, those up the chain of command may be exercising their judgement. As well as knowing your men intimately, you must also know your commander's and your commander's mind. This takes time and effort.
Respect is earned, often labouriously. Like credibility it takes a long time to achieve it and seconds of ill-judgement to loose it. You ask why your post was treated with disdain? The points were poor, you presented a poor image of yourself as a tyrant and the answer to all of the army's woes in your first post on this forum. If you really are all that and a bag of chips, then this will be recognised not only in your work but also by the people who use this forum regularly as what you say will be intelligent, insightful, and well argued. boasting about your men fearing you was not a good start. Saying you are in Bosnia when you are not didn't help your cause either (look to the left of the screen you will see the word "moderator" under my nickname, we can see where you post from, your ip address and all of your registration details and more besides). And for the record, no were are not all private soldiers trying to take the rise out of you. As for the mods, some of us are officers, (DE and LE), some NCOs, and some JNCOs. We even have a civilian to keep our perspective.
Gas Gas Gas
LE
Another top post there Woopert.
Paoli
Old-Salt
Fatty,
"There are no bad battalions, only bad officers." Bill Slim.
If you are not sure of Slim's credentials to give you a hard time over what you have written then look him up.
If you genuinely hope to achieve something by your posts, other than making you and the unit you profess to be attached to look bad, then I'm sure all here would be happy to continue a dialogue, if you start being honest and stop being a pillock.
Now, repeat over and over:
Team Needs
Task Needs
Individual Needs
"There are no bad battalions, only bad officers." Bill Slim.
If you are not sure of Slim's credentials to give you a hard time over what you have written then look him up.
If you genuinely hope to achieve something by your posts, other than making you and the unit you profess to be attached to look bad, then I'm sure all here would be happy to continue a dialogue, if you start being honest and stop being a pillock.
Now, repeat over and over:
Team Needs
Task Needs
Individual Needs
Strong words used......
Cowardice.... That's about the strongest word you can use in the same paragraph as "Soldier"
You should all have more moral courage and realise that the army is in decline due to the yes-man ure that has evolved
No, the Army is "in decline" due to the acceptance of Yes, Can do with less
Succesive Head Sheds, have allowed themselves, 90% through no fault of their own, to be steamrollered by the Treasury's approach of "No money for the Armed Forces"
Serving in the Armed Forces, is no longer as attractive a vocation, as once it was. Young people today , have no need to join to "see the world". Pay and conditions, do not reflect the outside world (See DHE thread on the other means)
Young people are now more informed as to the state of the world, and better able to formulate an opinion, and the opinion they come to , is "No Thanks, not when my Playstation, can give me all the warry experience I need"
15 years ago, if you were in Germany, you could feel the "constantly aware" mood, especially the closer you got to Checkpoint Alpha. Berlin was the same. Travelling in country, listening to BFBS, you felt a real buzz, thinking "Our Armed Forces", with a local population, by and large, pleased you were there to defend them from the Red Hordes....
Now that threat has gone, and with that, the gradual dismembering of our forces, and an increased reliance on the Septics.
We don't have an empire anymore, we don't have posts, where a young man or woman can think "Wow, here I am in the back of beyond, doing my bit" No, you can do a significant part of a 3 year tour , in the Emerald Khazi, Bosnia or the UK........ Whoppeeeeeee.
So Fatty, when you have a bunch of guys under your command, whom you feel, aren't doing enough, or haven't been buggered about nearly as much as you like, remember something.
They are professional, VOLUNTEER soldiers, who really don't have to be there. It's guys like these, that have been the backbone of the British Army since 1964, and will continue to be, long after you are gone( with any luck) They know what their rights are, and they also know, there is an embuggerance factor, especially if they get a Captain, who thinks he is General Slim. But they keep on soldiering.
If you want to improve performance, which appears to be at the root of your post, then .....
1. Stop buggering them about for no good reason, it fcuks with Morale.It sounds like you're trying to allieviate your boredom, by screwing with their downtime.
2. Get some extra activities organised, Hearts and minds stuff, integration with the locals, spot of building, training, Adv. Training etc
3.Take an interest in them, and their wishes, and they'll respect you. Do they come to you with any suggestions, or are they "Afraid"? Sounds like a breeding ground for resentment to me.
What you fail to see Fatty, is that far from the Boss being the problem, with his laid-back attitude, a lot of the problems, may be directly traceable to your desk. Therefore, examine yourself/needs/priorities before you jump in anyone else's sh1t......
Cowardice.... That's about the strongest word you can use in the same paragraph as "Soldier"
You should all have more moral courage and realise that the army is in decline due to the yes-man ure that has evolved
No, the Army is "in decline" due to the acceptance of Yes, Can do with less
Succesive Head Sheds, have allowed themselves, 90% through no fault of their own, to be steamrollered by the Treasury's approach of "No money for the Armed Forces"
Serving in the Armed Forces, is no longer as attractive a vocation, as once it was. Young people today , have no need to join to "see the world". Pay and conditions, do not reflect the outside world (See DHE thread on the other means)
Young people are now more informed as to the state of the world, and better able to formulate an opinion, and the opinion they come to , is "No Thanks, not when my Playstation, can give me all the warry experience I need"
15 years ago, if you were in Germany, you could feel the "constantly aware" mood, especially the closer you got to Checkpoint Alpha. Berlin was the same. Travelling in country, listening to BFBS, you felt a real buzz, thinking "Our Armed Forces", with a local population, by and large, pleased you were there to defend them from the Red Hordes....
Now that threat has gone, and with that, the gradual dismembering of our forces, and an increased reliance on the Septics.
We don't have an empire anymore, we don't have posts, where a young man or woman can think "Wow, here I am in the back of beyond, doing my bit" No, you can do a significant part of a 3 year tour , in the Emerald Khazi, Bosnia or the UK........ Whoppeeeeeee.
So Fatty, when you have a bunch of guys under your command, whom you feel, aren't doing enough, or haven't been buggered about nearly as much as you like, remember something.
They are professional, VOLUNTEER soldiers, who really don't have to be there. It's guys like these, that have been the backbone of the British Army since 1964, and will continue to be, long after you are gone( with any luck) They know what their rights are, and they also know, there is an embuggerance factor, especially if they get a Captain, who thinks he is General Slim. But they keep on soldiering.
If you want to improve performance, which appears to be at the root of your post, then .....
1. Stop buggering them about for no good reason, it fcuks with Morale.It sounds like you're trying to allieviate your boredom, by screwing with their downtime.
2. Get some extra activities organised, Hearts and minds stuff, integration with the locals, spot of building, training, Adv. Training etc
3.Take an interest in them, and their wishes, and they'll respect you. Do they come to you with any suggestions, or are they "Afraid"? Sounds like a breeding ground for resentment to me.
What you fail to see Fatty, is that far from the Boss being the problem, with his laid-back attitude, a lot of the problems, may be directly traceable to your desk. Therefore, examine yourself/needs/priorities before you jump in anyone else's sh1t......
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