Sleep

Yokel

LE
Sleep that knits up the ravell’d sleeve of care,
The death of each day’s life, sore labour’s bath,
Balm of hurt minds, great nature’s second course,
Chief nourisher in life’s feast.


From Shakespeare's 'Scottish play'.

How much sleep does an average person need? What with acting as a carer, I seem to not get to bed before 0100, am usually up again at somewhere between 0500 and 0600 and then struggle to get back to sleep. I am tired most of the time, not helped my medication, and am too tired to do all the things I need to do, which then stops me from relaxing.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
4hrs a night may have worked for Maggie, but it won’t do you any good….
 
7 or 8 really depending on personal health needs / job/ habits.
I'd wager you are around and two or sometimes 3 hours too light tbh.
Perhaps in a bit of "sleep debt" which just wears you down over time.
Took my wife of 42 years teaching around 3 years in retirement to get into proper sleep patterns again med free.
Different person now...boundless energy for a 69 years old...quick walks 5 miles every morning.
There is not right or wrong benchmark.
I get on very well with 6 or 7...so long as that has been done straight through though.
Hate lying in....waste of a day.
 
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Awol

LE
I never sleep before daylight (5am - 6am), then doze until 9am and that’s it. Unless I take a BFO cocktail of prescription (daily) medication which knocks me out for ten hours, which I resist, although I do have to take them at some point in the day.

I’ve bought a pill splitter which I’m using to good effect, reducing the more powerful medications by about half a tablet a week. None of its addictive, I just don’t want to be on the stuff. The docs don’t know.
 
This is one of the best podcasts I've seen - well worth a few hours of your time.

 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
This is one of the best podcasts I've seen - well worth a few hours of your time.

Walker? Seems his research is somewhat ‘manipulated’ and also occasionally plagiarised….
 
Walker? Seems his research is somewhat ‘manipulated’ and also occasionally plagiarised….
Ok - who/what else should I consider for greater accuracy? I don't mind occasionally plagiarised if it's gen.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Ok - who/what else should I consider for greater accuracy? I don't mind occasionally plagiarised if it's gen.
No idea - I thought it looked interesting so checked him out

He’s also a Scouser…
 
Ok - who/what else should I consider for greater accuracy? I don't mind occasionally plagiarised if it's gen.

Walker is a well respected academic with tenure at a world leading university. There has been some criticism of his book. This criticism seems valid to me. I think the issue is that he has moved from writing academic papers into popular science and has lost some of the rigidity implied in the former.

Even highly respected scientists often make prats of themselves when they (a) write pop science and (b) write about things outside their discipline. In the latter case they seem to think that because they are, say, excellent physicists they must therefore be experts on, say, evolution (yeah, that's you Fred Hoyle).

In his book Science Fictions Stuart Ritchie calls out some of Walkers errors. This is part of a wider critique of research in psychology. See here: The Many Faces of Bad Science

Summary:

Ritchie also calls out scientists who write hype-filled books for the public. He singles out Berkeley neuroscientist Matthew Walker, asserting that Walker’s book, Why We Sleep, blatantly misinterprets the underlying science with claims that “the shorter you sleep, the shorter your life span,” and that sleeping less than six or seven hours per night demolishes your immune system and doubles your risk of cancer. “Both statements go against the evidence,” Ritchie says, pointing to independent researcher Alexey Guzey’s detailed takedown. “Walker could have written a far more cautious book that limited itself to just what the data shows, but perhaps such a book wouldn’t have sold so many copies or been hailed as an intervention that ‘should change science and medicine.’”
Guzey's paper is a bit to long to summarise but you can read it here: Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" Is Riddled with Scientific and Factual Errors - Alexey Guzey

To his credit Walker took it all on the chin and published corrections and clarifications which went into the revised book. Here: Why We Sleep: Responses to questions from readers
 
I’ve bought a pill splitter which I’m using to good effect, reducing the more powerful medications by about half a tablet a week. None of its addictive, I just don’t want to be on the stuff. The docs don’t know.
This is very rarely a good idea.
 
It is very easy to get behind in good sleep and it becomes a bit of a self-feeding cycle.

'Banking' sleep is a god idea to combat this. Especially if caring - if you are overdrawn, power nap when your charge drops. The hoovering will be there when you have recharged your batteries and have the energy to get stuck into it. If you are struggling, prioritise what energy needs to be spent on what and what jobs can be split down into stages and tackled in sequence.

Do not undestimate topping up with power naps - 15 - 20 mins max. Post lunch is a good time

Do not not fall into the trap of the late afternoon Death Nap where you go over the 20 mins and enter deep sleep and sleep for a couple of hours, (or in my daughter's case, right through) .

Sleep Hygiene is a modern title for common good sense: a night-time routine that winds the body down ready to sleep: think the old fashioned Horlicks and book routine. Churchill used to take afternoon naps during the war but used to change into pyjamas and get unto a bed for it - extreme body messaging, but it let him drop off for 30 mins to de-stress while leading a country at war.

Sounds ninnyish, but white noise audio before and during sleep works. Years before it was a theory, when sleeping poorly due to stress, I used to sleep with a poorly-tuned radio turned on. Now there are plenty of free 8 hours white noise type audio channels on youtube - rain, sea, etc. Same basis as playing a lullaby to a baby - the body associates the calm noise with time to sleep. Cynical spouse - worked for them.


These links may be of possible interest :

Guide to sleep and Autogenic relaxation script

age related changes to sleep patterns

Power napping

Sleep banking

The NHS website refers readers on to the Sleepstation Website for a wider range of articles on specific and differing circumstances and needs
 
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RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
I listen to Classic FM on low volume. My bedside radio alarm has a sleep function. I set it to 45 minutes but rarely get past 15 minutes. As mentioned above, white noise can work too. I've found that having my fan running when it's warm also provides a low white noise whisper which has helped.

Nytol can work, or if desperate then a shot of liquid Night Nurse. The problem with the latter is that I find it difficult to get going the following morning. I restrict this one to the once or twice a year when my head is wedged between my bottom cheeks and I can't wind down.

Routine is good. A consistent bedtime routine pre-programs your body to sleep. I have a particular bathroom routine which I try to keep to.

If you can't get enough sleep during the night then a "power nap" mid-afternoon can help, but not more than an hour! Again, this is something that I find useful occasionally if I've not had enough sleep, but then again, it means that I tend to stay up later. I don't go full Churchill, but do use the spare bedroom for a nap, lying on top of the bed.

Yours in-somnia
RBMK
 
Best naps, stretched out flat with a blanket. f I go past 15 mins I am in Nap of Doom territory and up until 1 am.
 
At a push I can get by on 16hrs sleep.


Once in a while.


Otherwise it’s the full 20hrs.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
At a push I can get by on 16hrs sleep.


Once in a while.


Otherwise it’s the full 20hrs.
Given the size of you I’m surprised you don’t get by on a quarter of that.
 

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