Skills & Drills in Movies

#1
Wellyhead posted this in our discussion about "Love Honour & Obey."

I read a piece on this and that pretty much pans out. What I read was that "Andy McNab" simply did the firefight part of the failed robbery, skills and drills that sort of thing. To test out the effectivness of the scene they screened an early version at Fort Bragg to see what they thought apprently they all jumped for joy when Val Kilmer did a spot perfect mag change and forward assist as they had never seen it done properly in a hollywood film.
Good to see good skills and drills there, I have nothing but respect for these method actors and anorak-ish directors who wander around all tortured because they want to get everything just so. Conversely, I have nothing but contempt for lazy film-makers who fcuk up little things that ruin immersion. For example, why do soldiers in so many movies wear berets like twelve year old Sea Cadets?

So, nominations for realism for anything in a decent war/ action movie or whatever. The shoot-out in Heat after the robbery goes pear-shaped is often cited as a classic example where realism meets excitement at a perfect level. I'd have to agree.

Any more for any more? I'm going to bag an early one and nominate the first twenty minutes of the otherwise dreadful Saving Private Ryan. OK, I've never been shot at on an amphibious assault, but the immersion was incredible the first time I saw it in a big West End cinema.

I'm also nominating the car chase in Ronin. Having been in several car chases, I have to say that although much of the driving is impossible, it's one of the better done pieces of credible stunt driving, and at least one of them crashes properly halfway through it!

Looking forward to other nominations.

V!
 
#2
I'd better get the Bourne Identity in here before someone else nabs it, the fights are short, cars crash without exploding, and people get bloodied during brawls.

compare with countless other Gerry Bruckheimer "style" atrocities and its a clear leader.
 
#3
Dad used to say the FIBUA in the episode "Carentan" (Band of Brothers) was near as damn it , as it gave him proper flashbacks.

Oh and the Ardennes episodes made him cold just remembering what it was like. He swore whoever directed the shooting must have been there and experienced it that winter.
 
#4
^ Yes, good call. I don't know if it was the jerky camera-work and the washed-out filters but Band of Brothers had that feel to it.

I've got the DVD box set thingie, don't often watch the "extra features" but seeing how they made all the German AFVs out of bastardised 432s was very interesting, as was the boot camp all the actors went through.

V!
 
#5
not quite what your after but i recently played a ps2 game "call of duty 2 big red one" with the squad you are fighting alongside calling out "prepare to move"-"move" pretty good when on a bose system!.
 
#6
Call of duty 2 on the PC is ******* awesome too, very realistic. However, it still has that arcade feel, so you don't die after being shot once! Weapons are realistic too...shakeing sniper rifle, take a breath...then fire.
 
#7
I nominate the failed bank robery of Heat for the drills.Also worth considerable mentions are Ronin for the failed weapons deal under the bridge and Collateral for weapons handling by Cruise(Apparently an ex-SAS guy was the weapons adviser)
 
#8
Vegetius said:
I'm also nominating the car chase in Ronin. Having been in several car chases, I have to say that although much of the driving is impossible, it's one of the better done pieces of credible stunt driving, and at least one of them crashes properly halfway through it!

V!
They made that look so good because they got left hand drive cars and put an extra dummy steering wheel for the 'driver'. The real driver was in the passenger seat but you couldn't see him...so all you get is the actor pretending to drive, but having no control...and it shows! They look truly scared!

T C
 
#9
"Andy McNab" was asked the very same question, his vote went for the end of Platoon when Charlie Sheen does NSP's on an AK just before he shoots Tom Berenger
 
#11
Apocalypse Now , The attack on Vinh Dhrin Dop (Beach Attack)

One of my old Gliding instructors had been an ITN? cameraman in da' Nam back in the day , and described the atmosphere of tension and weapons checks in the Hueys on the run in as 'just like it was'. He was a bit more scathing about everything else after the first trigger pull though :D

Probably authentic because a lot of the extras had actually served in Vietnam?

Oh just remebered , this is the same individual who kept audio tapes of himself, his news team and assorted local ne'er-do-wells getting engaged by pissed off Russians in Afghanistan, on the tapes you can hear the British Cameraman (himself) and sound guy cool and calm under fire, while the American reporter is shit*ing kittens big style. He used to play it in his car as a guaranteed knicker dropper with vulnerable and impressionable Nurses in the SW London area. Allegedly *cough*
 
#12
On a serious note. The second ambush in platoon. Not the one where they are "Catching Z's" but the one where they are just mincing up through the jungle. Shit skills and drills getting people killed but very accurate in the sense of just small groups working on some fire and movement. Bosses giving "Bull sh1t Fire missions" and coming up with a million plans. Its exactly how people react in ambushes:

Find the nearest window and throw all your skills and drills, SOP's and command structure out of the window and rely on good old Delta Give cover Charlie move.
 
#13
Red Shrek said:
I nominate the failed bank robery of Heat for the drills.Also worth considerable mentions are Ronin for the failed weapons deal under the bridge and Collateral for weapons handling by Cruise(Apparently an ex-SAS guy was the weapons adviser)
Heard it was either McNab or Ryan, and by god what a good firefight, even had a weapons instructor show it to demonstrate fire and manouevre to newish recruits
 
#14
Darthspud said:
Red Shrek said:
I nominate the failed bank robery of Heat for the drills.Also worth considerable mentions are Ronin for the failed weapons deal under the bridge and Collateral for weapons handling by Cruise(Apparently an ex-SAS guy was the weapons adviser)
Heard it was either McNab or Ryan, and by god what a good firefight, even had a weapons instructor show it to demonstrate fire and manouevre to newish recruits
McNab, it's no secret, he's on the credits
 
#15
Did you hear about the real bank robbery planned after seeing the film? They even waited to get the exact same kind of bags for the money. The real robbers wore body armour though, I think it made the news because the Police had to go into a local hunting shop for heavier fire-power to stop them!! Heard they were considering up arming after it too incase something similar happened again. Didn't the Heat actors and McNab stage a bank robbery too, apartently the manager knew and passed it off as a training exercise. Image if a gung-ho type slotted DeNiro, Paccino, Kilmer and McNab!! Wonder how they would have explained that one!
 
#16
FNUSNU said:
Did you hear about the real bank robbery planned after seeing the film? They even waited to get the exact same kind of banks for the money. The real robbers wore body armour though, I think it made the news because the Police had to go into a local hunting shop for heavier fire-power to stop them!! Heard they were considering up arming after it too incase something similar happened again. Didn't the Heat actors and McNab stage a bank robbery too, apartently the manager knew and passed it off as a training exercise. Image if a gung-ho type slotted DeNiro, Paccino, Kilmer and McNab!! Wonder how they would have explained that one!
Yeah, that's regularly dragged out for Yank real life cop shows.

IIRC, they were both shot in the legs to incapacitate them (this is after having taking a number of rounds on the armour), one gave himself up and the other slotted himself.
 
#17
What you are referring too is called the "North Hollywood Bank Shootout." However, you have a few facts wrong. The first suspect did, in fact, shoot himself. Neither suspect was shot in the legs to incapacitation. The second suspect did not give up, however was shot until he went down. He later died due to blood loss.

When the search warrant was served on their house, a copy of the movie Heat was found. This and other items found in the house, led the LAPD to believe they used that particular segment in the movie, for the bank heist.

Quite interesting to note, although the suspects fired over a thousand rounds of ammunition, NO ONE was killed in the firefight, except the suspects.
 
#18
Phil306 said:
What you are referring too is called the "North Hollywood Bank Shootout." However, you have a few facts wrong. The first suspect did, in fact, shoot himself. Neither suspect was shot in the legs to incapacitation. The second suspect did not give up, however was shot until he went down. He later died due to blood loss.

When the search warrant was served on their house, a copy of the movie Heat was found. This and other items found in the house, led the LAPD to believe they used that particular segment in the movie, for the bank heist.

Quite interesting to note, although the suspects fired over a thousand rounds of ammunition, NO ONE was killed in the firefight, except the suspects.
Wow, just like the A-Team (except of course they always survive)! :D
 
#19
Russel Crowe in Proof of Life was doing well until he did a stupid forward roll down a hill in the village attack.

The Scene where he slits a sentrys throat with a Leatherman, came about because Russell and the producers were talking in a bar in Sydney about what type of knife a Special Forces would use.They were all thinking of the Fairburn Sykes type blade. Sat at another table allegedly was a serving Aussie SAS Sgt who couldn’t help over hearing this and decided to go up to them and suggest the only blade for the job is the serrated bit on a Leatherman. So it got put in the scene and you can see ol Russell having a good old saw on the sentrys neck!
 
#20
For realism it has to be the A team everytime. Altough the bank shootout in Heat did give me the horn...

I thought Black Hawk down was pretty good for conveying the sheer bloody chaos of fibua, another plus is that Orlando Bloom gets thrown out of a Black Hawk...
 
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