SJARs, Redress and rights??

Discussion in 'Reports & Promotion' started by dayz2do, Feb 2, 2010.

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  1. Anybody out there have any experience on redressing sjars and options open to soldiers?
     
  2. Welcome to Arrse. The answer to your question is "yes".

    Now, if you would like help, pray tell us the broad outline of your situation - without going into details that might identify you.

    Litotes
     
  3. Not sure on rights but you can re-dress your SJAR in the comments box commonly known as the suicide box. They have to be looked at and any valid points taken into consideration. Worth doing if you are not happy with what has been written ( or if you have a OC like i had is more interested in bigging up her own career she just writes rubbish ).
    Main fact is that you also have rights so use them

    Not alot of info but hope it helps
     
  4. Thanks very much:

    I'm trying to advise a soldier who has recently received an SJAR which is markedly weaker than the previous year. It was written by the same 1st and 2nd RO as the previous year. The first RO's report is fine, but the 2nd is much weaker and contains a line 'I would expect the soldier to pick up in the next couple of years'..... Previous year's recommend was 'unequivocal'.

    Soldier had no sight of report before it was released to the board.
    Soldier had a positive MPAR with no indication of a weaker report.

    Usual problem of 'factually incorrect content', making redress almost impossible, but this is a report that will harm the soldier's career, basically because of some poor report writing by his 2nd RO and there doesn't seem to be very much he can do about it.
     
  5. Your rights under of redress are outlined in JSP 831, but in essence you cannot really dispute opinion unless it is so outrgageous it spills over into distortion of fact, which you can redress. As for suicide notes, if your OJAR is so bad and you disagree with the assessment then for fook's sake say so. Don't get emotional just say "I disagree with my 1RO's assessment of my potential" or whatever. Your 2RO will note your comments.

    What have you got to lose?
     
  6. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    And then not be able to do much about it without going back to the 1 RO, as if you have just said "I disagree", he will still expect some form of explanation or justification.

    First off, you might want to consider having a chat with another grown up (officer or SNCO whose opinion you trust) before hand. We all tend to see ourselves in a different light than others do, so it might be of value to see if they think that your SJAR is so wide of the mark.

    Then ask for an interview to discuss your SJAR with your 1 RO. Make your points in a clear, non-confrontational manner, with justifications for your requests for change. "I disagree" is not enough. "Sir, I disagree with your comment that I have no potential to promotion to Sgt, because I acted up in that role for the whole of "Ex Eagle's Crimper" and was told I did a good job. I have also covered the role in barracks whilst Sgt Snodgrass was away on compassionate" might be enough.

    If you cannot negotiate a change to the SJAR, then by all means go for the comments box or redress, but your efforts to seek an agreeable solution before going the formal route will be well received by the 2RO, and puts the onus on the 1 RO to explain why he maintained his line despite your obvious greivances.

    Of course, if you are a total chod, expect your SJAR to remain bad.
     
  7. Appreciate the option to comment on the 1st RO's report, but WHY is there no option to comment on the 2nd RO's write-up???

    Also why are we still allowing officers to express personal opinion that can cost a soldier years of his career without holding them to some sort of account.

    2nd and 3rd ROs can write anything they want, with no requirement to justify their opinions in any way... even when they contradict the comments of the 1st RO.... that surely can't be right. There needs to be some sort of accountability, currently there is nothing.
     
  8. Then ask for an interview to discuss your SJAR with your 1 RO. Make your points in a clear, non-confrontational manner, with justifications for your requests for change. "I disagree" is not enough. "Sir, I disagree with your comment that I have no potential to promotion to Sgt, because I acted up in that role for the whole of "Ex Eagle's Crimper" and was told I did a good job. I have also covered the role in barracks whilst Sgt Snodgrass was away on compassionate" might be enough.



    All.. helpful, but irrelevant in this case as it is the 2nd ROs comments and the report has already been released to the board without the soldier having an opportunity to see it.
     
  9. My final CR gave me an "A" with a comment that said I was disloyal. This comment was made as a result of my refusal to falsify a Lt. Col's examination results. I took my complaint as far as the Brigadier at Brompton. He wrote in red pen on the CR that the comment was unjustified.
     
  10. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator



    Considering that the 2ROs comments are generally only a few lines at most, there must have been some serious differences between 1 RO and 2 RO for it to be this big an issue then? A word with the RCMO/RSM/CO (if he is not the 2RO!) might be worth a shot. Failing that, formal redress as covered above.

    Sorry, I missed your post above giving more detail of the case. Poor report writing or a report that you and the soldier disagree with? Not the same thing.

    The 2RO has changed his strength of recommendation from "unequivocal" to "in the next couple of years". He could still be doing fine, but has been overtaken by some of his peers, or VEng is starting to bite, slowing up the promotion flow. It could also be that the 2 RO has had to write someone else up very strongly to ensure that they are top of the list to pick up for timing purposes - ie to ensure they get their 2 years in rank for pension. It grates when it happens to someone else, but it as only fair when people need it themselves!

    Without being in the 2 ROs shoes, and with full sight of the unit manning and promotion plot, there is not much that anyone can really suggest you do. It is his decision based on his perception of the soldier. It is not fair, but then neither is much else in life.
     
  11. The 2RO has changed his strength of recommendation from "unequivocal" to "in the next couple of years". He could still be doing fine, but has been overtaken by some of his peers, or VEng is starting to bite, slowing up the promotion flow. It could also be that the 2 RO has had to write someone else up very strongly to ensure that they are top of the list to pick up for timing purposes - ie to ensure they get their 2 years in rank for pension. It grates when it happens to someone else, but it as only fair when people need it themselves!

    Without being in the 2 ROs shoes, and with full sight of the unit manning and promotion plot, there is not much that anyone can really suggest you do. It is his decision based on his perception of the soldier. It is not fair, but then neither is much else in life.[/quote]


    So the bottom line is.... there is nothing he can really do.... will advise that he enters a service complaint, but i suspect the RCMO will advise him that there is nothing factually incorrect and therefore no grounds for complaint.

    I can't help but lament the total lack of accountability....
     
  12. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    The RCMO should be in the position to give him so reasons for it - ie a bit of background about the promotions plot etc. It will not make it better, but it is often easier if you know the reason for something rather than trying to guess.

    The lack of accountability is a fact of life, not just in the forces. The perception of senior managers concerning the relative merits of subordinates is very rarely fair or accountable unless you are working on a production line or sales job where everything can be measured in units made or sold.
     
  13. And never underestimate the board. If that is one report that goes against previous ones they will pick it up and query it amongst themselves. Quite possibly completely ignoring the 2RO's statement. It is unusual for both ROs not to have a conflab before the 2RO writes their piece up so that they don't look like complete buffoons when the report goes to the board. Usually if the 2RO wants to write something that may be controversial then they will ask the 1RO to broach it with the subject first.
     
  14. See? Lots of experts!!

    I will only add the comment that the 2RO is supposed to look at the officer's/soldier's potential for a job within the wider Defence community. That is why the 1-up and 2-up boxes are there.

    So, for an infantry soldier, the 2RO (usually the Coy Comd) should be looking at the soldier's potential as a LCpl/Cpl in the Bn.

    Litotes
     

  15. So the bottom line is.... there is nothing he can really do.... will advise that he enters a service complaint, but i suspect the RCMO will advise him that there is nothing factually incorrect and therefore no grounds for complaint.

    I can't help but lament the total lack of accountability....
    [/quote]

    Sorry, but I missed that last comment.

    I am not certain that I agree with you; soldiers can challenge their report and they do so. Whether they are justified in doing so and whether they obtain a successful outcome is another matter.

    Do you have a better reporting system?

    Litotes