SJAR Complaint

#21
Could someone please help me with some questions I have about the process of SJAR'S
1. who gets the end say on your overall grade?
2. if you disagree with your grade and have asked for a re dress if it comes back still not what you agree with can you ask for a second redress?
3. if the R01 Comments something and the R02 diragrees can he make the Ro1 change or delete the comment or should he put the disagreement in the R02 Section?
4. Personal relationships Shouldn't effect your performance or potential Grading or write up?
5. if you get 6 A+ and 6 A what should the overall grade be?
Anyone got any insights on the other questions?
 
#23
Could someone please help me with some questions I have about the process of SJAR'S
1. who gets the end say on your overall grade? The grading conference made up of unit RO1s & RO2s, that way grades and positions are arranged for the reports.
2. if you disagree with your grade and have asked for a re dress if it comes back still not what you agree with can you ask for a second redress? You can redress or put in a service complaint about the wording or in correct facts in the report. You cannot redress opinion. There is not a second redress procedure if you disagree with the first.
3. if the R01 Comments something and the R02 diragrees can he make the Ro1 change or delete the comment or should he put the disagreement in the R02 Section? If the RO2 disagrees with the RO1 it should be annotated in the narrative, however this shows a massive problem within the CoC and questions both the RO1 & 2.
4. Personal relationships Shouldn't effect your performance or potential Grading or write up? I take it you've not completed the unconscious bias training then?
5. if you get 6 A+ and 6 A what should the overall grade be? Either A+ or A, however, if that was your realistic scores and you are posting this problem on here you unit is guilty of grossly over grading.
My bold to your RFIs.

The lack of a MPAR is grounds for a service complaint, they are mandatory, not optional. Ask for a copy of the MPAR that you signed as evidence of its existence. MPARs should be destroyed only when the SJAR has been completed and sent to APC, in case it is needed as evidence in a service complaint.
 
#24
My bold to your RFIs.

The lack of a MPAR is grounds for a service complaint, they are mandatory, not optional. Ask for a copy of the MPAR that you signed as evidence of its existence. MPARs should be destroyed only when the SJAR has been completed and sent to APC, in case it is needed as evidence in a service complaint.
I've completed the paperwork for a service complaint but was asked to delay it and try meditation to resolve the issue
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#25
Anyone got any insights on the other questions?
3. Most changes requested by a 2RO would have been covered in draft versions. If the 1RO won’t budge on a matter of opinion the 2RO only really has the choice to disagree in his box. It would have to be a firmly held opinion by the 1RO to get this far though.
4. Personal relationships can form part of an SJAR, where relevant. If you constantly fall out with others, or continually show disrespect towards higher ranks, it can be used to show a lack of potential for promotion or certain appointments.
5. There is no fixed rule on you overall grade based on numbers of individual scores. It is an “in the round” view, but should be broadly consistent.
 
#26
I've completed the paperwork for a service complaint but was asked to delay it and try meditation to resolve the issue
As a qualified SC investigator, there are probably a couple of things that you should be aware of.

When you put in the SC, you should have a clear idea of what it is you want from the SC. Not just make a complaint, what do you want to happen to put it right?

Whilst SC's have timescales, these can be elastic. Investigators have tight deadlines, but if personnel are not available then we can report that back and the deadlines extended.

Quite often SC's on SJARs can take longer than the time between the SJAR being submitted and the grading board. Something to take into account. In general, you are better to try to resolve this locally, if you can.

Furthermore, you can challenge on factual content, but not on opinion. After all, the SJAR is subjective by nature. It's what the 1st RO thinks of you, and then if the 2nd RO agrees or disagrees.

In general, it's bad form for the 1st and 2nd RO not to agree. There should have been a conversation between the two. If one thinks you walk on water, and the other thinks you are a waste of space, why is there that disagreement? That is called management. An SJAR that has fundamental disagreements between the 1st and 2nd RO's should go to a 3rd RO for arbitration/comment.

Why do you feel that you are unhappy? If the report isn't well written, then the 1st RO can, and should, seek guidance as to how to complete it. If it is well written, concise and not too verbose, and there genuinely isn't space to put in all the good things, then you, as an individual should discuss and decide together what should and shouldn't go in/be left out.

As I said, if its opinion that you are unhappy with, then you will be facing an uphill battle. If it's factually incorrect (saying you haven't deployed when you have done x amount of months away) then that's a different matter.

Have you tried to write one on yourself? All very well complaining about one that has been written about you, but as an exercise, why not sit down, get out the writing guide and actually write on on yourself. Be honest, subjective and try to see yourself as others do (try to leave your ego out of it) and see what you end up with. do you really see yourself as promotable now? What makes you better than everyone else? If it's honest, and better written, use that as evidence with your 1st/2nd RO's.

As for not having an MPAR? Well, they are mandatory, not optional. If you haven't had one, then, yes, it's grounds for an SC. When submitting, what you do want out of it? Just because you didn't have one, doesn't invalidate the SJAR, just makes it difficult for the management to point out failings/areas of improvement etc. Doesn't make it impossible, especially if they can demonstrate that they have counselled/advised/helped throughout the RP. what redress for the missing MPAR do you want? In reality the SC is, almost certainly, going to censure the management team and ensure that MPARs are completed in the future.

Finally, remember, SJARs are a double edged sword. Admittedly we write them differently in the RAF than you guys do in the Army, after all we want different things from our personnel/promotees. It is far too easy to damn someone with faint praise. On the surface it can look like a reasonable SJAR, but if constructed properly, the board will see through the writing and see what is really being said about the person and act accordingly.

I'm not saying "suck it up, treacle". What I am saying is do something about it, be constructive and be prepared to be inward looking. If it's not what you want this year, what can you do about it for next?
 
#28
Have to be one hell of an old soldier to have a number starting 23! I joined in 1966 and mine starts 24.
Auld-Yin - b*gger me you are really old - I joined in '81 and mine starts 24...!
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#30
Could someone please help me with some questions I have about the process of SJAR'S
1. who gets the end say on your overall grade?
2. if you disagree with your grade and have asked for a re dress if it comes back still not what you agree with can you ask for a second redress?
3. if the R01 Comments something and the R02 diragrees can he make the Ro1 change or delete the comment or should he put the disagreement in the R02 Section?
4. Personal relationships Shouldn't effect your performance or potential Grading or write up?
5. if you get 6 A+ and 6 A what should the overall grade be?
There's the way the SJAR process is meant to work and the way it does work, so hopefully these answers will provide some assistance:

1. 2RO. Normally your 1RO will grade you only after a grading board has been conducted, ranking everyone that the 2RO writes on in quality order. This rank order more than anything else, including the grade, determines how good your SJAR is. You should find it as the first line of the potential paragraph "Pte X is 5th of the 75 privates on whom It report" or something along those lines.

2. As others have said, you can go for a service complaint but there are risks to doing so. If you haven't had an MPAR then you may have grounds for a complaint. BUT if you have a B grade report then chances are you won't succesfully argue that it should be higher, given that a B grade is the performance standard you're meant to meet. If it's lower than a B then you may be able to nudge it up but it honestly isn't worth it.

3. At the level you're working at its likely that the 2RO will briefly review the 1RO reports before they're published. Technically he could disagree in his bkx but that would be extremely rare given that 2ROs rarely see the subjects so they have to rely on 1RO opinion most of the time.

4. That depends. In thekry these things are meant to be objective but if you've called your 1RO a c*nt then you probably shouldn't expect an A-.

5. It could go either way with that. I can't speak for all units, but in the places I've served those minor grades are used to show how strong the main grade is. Ie a bloke with a B+ main grade and 6 B+s and 6 Bs for the minor grades just scraped into a B+. The bloke with 7 B+s and 5 A-s only just missed an A- and is therefore clearly better than the first bloke. Nobody really looks at those though as this information is essentially contained in the ranking.


You've also commented that your troopy hasn't put in all the detail you wanted. Honestly, if he's genuinely run out of space then he's written you a shit report (unless you're RAF because they're different). Brevity is key with reports and certain key lines that tell people how good/bad you've been are much more important than a dull narrative about all the courses you've completed in the last year.


None of that is meant to assume anything about the report you've had and how well deserved it was, but hopefully that helps you understand the slightly odd SJAR process.
 
#33
Your report should be written against the SMART objectives agreed between you and you RO at the start of the reporting period (oi, stop laughing at the back ^~ ).

If this isn’t the case and you 100% didn’t receive an MPAR, you have a cast iron Service Complaint. Indeed you should submit one to ensure the f*ckwits in charge of MS in your unit don’t command anything more than a flock of geese in the future.

Or you could be telling porkies because you are an utter bellthronk who can5 accept the fact :)
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#35
Have to be one hell of an old soldier to have a number starting 23! I joined in 1966 and mine starts 24.
And you retired with the rank of Decanus.
 
#39
Could someone please help me with some questions I have about the process of SJAR'S
1. who gets the end say on your overall grade? your 1Ro for 1RO and 2RO for 2RO
2. if you disagree with your grade and have asked for a re dress if it comes back still not what you agree with can you ask for a second redress? yes through service complaint, but unlikely to be resolved. Your reporting officer will have a portfolio of evidence to determine your grade
3. if the R01 Comments something and the R02 diragrees can he make the Ro1 change or delete the comment or should he put the disagreement in the R02 Section? either.
4. Personal relationships Shouldn't effect your performance or potential Grading or write up? Correct, but they do
5. if you get 6 A+ and 6 A what should the overall grade be? You've been overgraded. 'A's are exceptionally rare, 'A-" should only be used for exeptional candidates that don't normally need to ask ARRSE for MS advice.
See above. Based on my experience as OC, DCOS and CO.
 
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