Six Nations 2019

No. A losing team can get 2 BPs if they score 4 tries and lose within 6 points (or is it 7...?) hence the GS winners have to have 3 to ensure they top the table
I was about to start gobbing off until I sat down with a pen and paper to double check my dodgy mental maths.

Grand Slam won with no bonus points = 5 matches, 4 points each = 20 points
2nd place, 4 wins with bonus point = 4 matches, 5 points each = 20 points, plus 2 bonus points for the loss = 22 points.

An extremely unlikely scenario but the 3 points is a sensible solution.
 

TheresaMay

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
So if say, Wales won every game by with less than 4 tries, they'd end up with 5 x 4pts = 20 overall.

Now imagine if England won 4 games with 4 tries each 4 x 5pts = 20 overall.

Now imagine the one game England lost they'd scored 4 tries (giving them 1 BP), but Wales scored 3 tries and a few penalties and the final score was 28-30 to Wales, they'd get another BP taking their total campaign tally to 22 overall.

Wales then get 3 BP to make sure the table ends up with the GS winner on top, regardless of maximum BP picked up by other teams.

As rare as it is, it is still a mathematical possibility and to be fair, England and Wales aren't too far off that scenario this year either!
 
Call me old fashioned (I’m sure you will, and probably various other things as well) but I’m not a fan of the bonus points system. Sticking 50 points past Italy on your home turf is all very well, but is it worthy of greater reward than beating one of England, Ireland or Wales away in a tight hard fought encounter where you don’t actually rack up four tries?

If a team travels to three different countries during the Six Nations, and beats them all by 3 tries to nil plus whatever points are kicked, is that a lesser achievement than playing them all at home and beating them by four tries to three? because I would argue that it is a greater achievement. The bonus point system doesn’t agree.

I understand the ethos of trying to encourage scoring tries but not every game is like a barbarians game, and neither would I want it to be. One of the greatest games of rugby of all times saw Llanelli beat the All Blacks by nine points to three (I know it wasn’t an international, and also that it was very much in the amateur era), but that was a truly great victory. One try was scored in that game.

So for me I’d happily go back to points for a win and, if teams are tied, points difference. This year, if England, Ireland and Wales all had four wins, then as things stand England would win the championship by virtue of what is currently an 80-odd points difference (Wales is 30-odd, and Ireland is less than that). With Wales playing Ireland and England playing Scotland that is only going to improve in England’s favour on Saturday (with the greatest of respect to Scotland, who are devastated by injury and also playing away). But so be it. It reflects the reality of the season’s competition.
 
Team to beat Wales including club and caps:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 89
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 76
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 19
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 16
11. Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 18
10. Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) 82
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 71
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 87
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) (capt) 116
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 32
4. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 4
5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 16
6. Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 56
7. Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster) 55
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 30
Replacements:
16. Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 13
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 28
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 13
19. Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 11
20. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 13
21. Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 24
22. Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 2
23. Jordan Larmour (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) 12
 
That is such a fantastic starting XV. I’m somewhat amazed that CJ Stander only has 30 caps - he is world class. Likewise that the two centres have 16 and 19 caps. They play like seasoned veterans.

The bench isn’t quite so impressive, but if Wales get the win on Saturday I will view it as a major achievement. I’m hoping for a really good game of rugby.
 
I read that Eddie Jones has withdrawn 21 year old Joe Cok from the final game squad v Scotland.
Did he do the same with a young Itoje?
My recall may be dodgy, but Itoje seemed to go from automatic England choice, into Lions pick in his first full year?

Anyhow, while I hope Ireland win, it doesn’t matter to me as an England fan. Get the Scots we’ll beaten and go to RWC with a great squad, that will be hard for Jones to trim down to size.
 
Yes and Nowell back in, Mrs Feu told me last night but with no explanation. Maybe a different game plan. I think you are right about Itoje

Something has been bothering me for ages, why is Stander always “C J Stander” ? Is there another one that I don’t know about
 
Call me old fashioned (I’m sure you will, and probably various other things as well) but I’m not a fan of the bonus points system. Sticking 50 points past Italy on your home turf is all very well, but is it worthy of greater reward than beating one of England, Ireland or Wales away in a tight hard fought encounter where you don’t actually rack up four tries?

If a team travels to three different countries during the Six Nations, and beats them all by 3 tries to nil plus whatever points are kicked, is that a lesser achievement than playing them all at home and beating them by four tries to three? because I would argue that it is a greater achievement. The bonus point system doesn’t agree.

I understand the ethos of trying to encourage scoring tries but not every game is like a barbarians game, and neither would I want it to be. One of the greatest games of rugby of all times saw Llanelli beat the All Blacks by nine points to three (I know it wasn’t an international, and also that it was very much in the amateur era), but that was a truly great victory. One try was scored in that game.

So for me I’d happily go back to points for a win and, if teams are tied, points difference. This year, if England, Ireland and Wales all had four wins, then as things stand England would win the championship by virtue of what is currently an 80-odd points difference (Wales is 30-odd, and Ireland is less than that). With Wales playing Ireland and England playing Scotland that is only going to improve in England’s favour on Saturday (with the greatest of respect to Scotland, who are devastated by injury and also playing away). But so be it. It reflects the reality of the season’s competition.
If they want to 'harvest' trys, then change the scoring method to say 6 for a try with a single for the conversion and only 2 for a penalty and drop goal...... That'll encourage trys.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Yes and Nowell back in, Mrs Feu told me last night but with no explanation. Maybe a different game plan. I think you are right about Itoje

Something has been bothering me for ages, why is Stander always “C J Stander” ? Is there another one that I don’t know about
It's a South African thing.
CJ is from that neck of the woods.

As is WP Nel playing for Scotland
 

TheresaMay

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
I wonder how many players in the 6N aren't actually from the 6N...?

You've got Coke-whatsit, Tulagi, Vunipola brothers for England.

Gareth Anscombe, Hadleigh Parks, Tulupe Faletau for Wales.

CJ Stander for Ireland...

Who have I missed? Is there a definitive list anywhere?
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I wonder how many players in the 6N aren't actually from the 6N...?

You've got Coke-whatsit, Tulagi, Vunipola brothers for England.

Gareth Anscombe, Hadleigh Parks, Tulupe Faletau for Wales.

CJ Stander for Ireland...

Who have I missed? Is there a definitive list anywhere?
We'll be fielding a couple of South African props, an Aussie second row and the back 3 will include a Nambian (I think he is) and a New Zealander.

That's just off the top of my head without actually looking them all up.
 
So for me I’d happily go back to points for a win and, if teams are tied, points difference.
So you'd happily lose the champioship to England becasue we scored a try under the posts and chipped over an easy conversion while you scored one out wide and missed the extras on a windy day; or we played Italy on a lovely sunny day in Rome and ran in 60 while you beat them on wet/windy weekend in Cardiff and could only manage 20. No system is ultimately 'fair', the bonus point one has the advantage of removing the situation where one massive win makes all other points differences irrelevant from the equation. The other advantage is the losing bonus keeps a team motivated in some situations where they would have otherwised switched off.
 

TheresaMay

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
Well well... ironically it's our Septic Tanks who provide us with the most comprehensive 6N list of Johnny Foreigners invading our ranks...

Foreign-Born Players in 2019 Six Nations - Americas Rugby News

Check out Scotland's list - they come over here, nicking our rugby positions and our women.

And who'd have known the Vunipola brothers were born in different countries? (Aus & NZ)
 
Well well... ironically it's our Septic Tanks who provide us with the most comprehensive 6N list of Johnny Foreigners invading our ranks...

Foreign-Born Players in 2019 Six Nations - Americas Rugby News

Check out Scotland's list - they come over here, nicking our rugby positions and our women.

And who'd have known the Vunipola brothers were born in different countries? (Aus & NZ)
It reinforces my prediction that international Rugby will end up like American Football as nothing more than franchises taking local names with the players coming from a worldwide draft.
 

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