Six More US MIA returned to their families

Distant relation to Wingate lived in my Somerset village. Retired Wg Cdr RAF died a few years ago, a fine gentleman.
It has been said by various IDF bods that had Windgate survived WW2, he would have been offered the post of head of the IDF. They are rather attached to him.
 
Where did the Pearl Harbour ones come from? Do they still have people looking there or was it some kind of accidental find?
buried as unknowns this explains some of them




Some of the Sailors at Pearl Harbor were trapped until Christmas before dying in compartments

that were dry as a bone. Their remains not recovered until months later. This article describes both one of the lost and what was seen when these compartments were finally opened.

They Will Always Be Remembered

Many of the USS Oklahoma dead had basically liquified before being recovered months later

-from watertight compartments. Many also had no ID tags on their remains. men trapped inside survived until just before Christmas 1941 but there was no way to rescue them USS West Virginia crewmen suffered the same fate.

Pearl Harbor: 16 Days To Die -- Trapped By The Memories -- Few Knew The Secret Of The Sunken Battleship; Families Weren't Told Of Sailors' Lingering Deaths | The Seattle Times

Late spring 1942 found Navy salvage teams finally getting to work on the WV. An Inventive series of tremic cement patches were fitted to her port side, and enough water pumped out to partially float the once grand ship. BB48 was nudged across the Harbor into drydock and the grim task of finding bodies began.

For Commander Paul Dice, compartment A-111 was expected to be like the rest: Put on gas masks, place some goo into a bodybag and let the Medical boys worry about identification.

They had seen it all, but this compartment was different. Dice first noticed the interior was dry and flashlight batteries and empty ration cans littered the floor. A manhole cover to a fresh water supply was opened. Then he saw the calendar. It was 12"x14" and marked with big red Xs that ended December 23. Hardened salvage workers wept uncontrollably as they realized the fate of these men. Word quickly spread among salvage crews: Three men had lived for 16 days to suffer the most agonizing deaths among the 2800 victims at Pearl Harbor.
 
One of our great military leaders, Orde Wingate, is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. His remains and those of the other passengers and crew of the USAAF B25 bomber in which he was travelling could not be separately identified, and there was an agreement between the US and UK that where unidentified bodies from both countries were interred in a multiple grave, then the country which had most nationals buried would have the right to interment. There were five Americans and four Brits aboard the Mitchell. Their bodies were initially buried at the crash site, then moved to a British cemetery at Imphal, and then in 1950 disinterred once again and taken to Arlington.

Wingate's family were not given any notice of the removal to Arlington, and were opposed to burial in the US. They were supported by Winston Churchill, but to no avail.

Now, Arlington is a very fine place in which to be buried, and the Americans were quite correct in claiming all nine sets of remains. However, given the advances in scientific procedures which permit the identification of long dead remains, as evidenced by the fine principles demonstrated by the accountings mentioned in this thread, perhaps it is time that Wingate's remains (if they can indeed be identified) should be reburied for the final time. Appropriate locations might be UK, or India/Burma (in accordance with the IWGC/CWGC principle of burying war dead at or near the place of death.) Wingate's memory is highlyView attachment 476308 honoured in Israel, and it's probably where he would wish to be buried. (Edit: Note the small pebbles on the top of the headstone in the image below - a Jewish practise. Not certain if these are for Wingate, but I wouldn't be surprised.)

View attachment 476308

The mass grave at Arlington. Of the other Brits Borrow was Wingate's adjutant/ADC. Emeny was a correspondent for the News Chronicle, Wills for the Daily Herald.
Hodges was the pilot, Wanderer - can you believe it - was the navigator. Sadowski, air gunner, Hickey radio operator and McIninch was flight engineer.
They have precedent for it. The Unknown from the Vietnam war was identified and removed to his family in 1998

 
It has been said by various IDF bods that had Windgate survived WW2, he would have been offered the post of head of the IDF. They are rather attached to him.
Windgate served as an Intelligence Officer in mandated Palestine 1936 - 39, a period of conflict between Jews and Arab population with British in the middle. Windgate identified with Zionists it is thought on religious grounds, he was staunch Plymouth Brethren. He is attributed to assisting in setting up a Jewish Home Guard, The Haganah, which went on to become the start of the Israeli Army. Also, he did not serve in WW1 entered Woolwich in 1921 and commissioned RA 1923.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
buried as unknowns this explains some of them




Some of the Sailors at Pearl Harbor were trapped until Christmas before dying in compartments

that were dry as a bone. Their remains not recovered until months later. This article describes both one of the lost and what was seen when these compartments were finally opened.

They Will Always Be Remembered

Many of the USS Oklahoma dead had basically liquified before being recovered months later

-from watertight compartments. Many also had no ID tags on their remains. men trapped inside survived until just before Christmas 1941 but there was no way to rescue them USS West Virginia crewmen suffered the same fate.

Pearl Harbor: 16 Days To Die -- Trapped By The Memories -- Few Knew The Secret Of The Sunken Battleship; Families Weren't Told Of Sailors' Lingering Deaths | The Seattle Times

Late spring 1942 found Navy salvage teams finally getting to work on the WV. An Inventive series of tremic cement patches were fitted to her port side, and enough water pumped out to partially float the once grand ship. BB48 was nudged across the Harbor into drydock and the grim task of finding bodies began.

For Commander Paul Dice, compartment A-111 was expected to be like the rest: Put on gas masks, place some goo into a bodybag and let the Medical boys worry about identification.

They had seen it all, but this compartment was different. Dice first noticed the interior was dry and flashlight batteries and empty ration cans littered the floor. A manhole cover to a fresh water supply was opened. Then he saw the calendar. It was 12"x14" and marked with big red Xs that ended December 23. Hardened salvage workers wept uncontrollably as they realized the fate of these men. Word quickly spread among salvage crews: Three men had lived for 16 days to suffer the most agonizing deaths among the 2800 victims at Pearl Harbor.
A truly awful way to go.
 
@DavidBOC - Why the Funny? Not annoyed, just curious?
No, not funny at all but I was checking ARRSE on my cell phone and the tiny buttons are small for big fingers.

There is a forensic lab in Hawaii that has pretty amazing success identifying remains of fallen from WW II, Korea and Vietnam. Some of the technical help are professionals in the field who volunteer to help identify remains. A man who was my neighbor for years was a Dental Corps officer in the USA Reserve and a professor at Tufts dental school. I know many years he would go there for a few weeks, two weeks paid as a reservist and the other weeks as a volunteer but DoD provided housing.
One other person who worked there was Dr Kathy Reichs, a well known author of forensic crime novels who is a board certified forensic anthropologist. She teaches at the University of North Carolina. She usually goes to the Hawaii lab for a couple of weeks twice a year. She also spent a vast amount of time after 9-11 (UK=11-9) in New York working to piece together the remains from the World Trade Center.

Recently here in Massachusetts there was a funeral of a man who died December 7, 1941 on USS Utah. News stories said his nieces and nephews were happy that the uncle was finally resting with the rest of the family.
 
There’s a cemetery in Hawaii named Punchbowl thats home to the graves of servicemen who fought in the pacific theatre along with the Korean and Vietnam wars. Not sure about ww2 and Vietnam, but even now there are around 800 Korean war casualties buried as unknown still waiting to be identified. There is no set timeline except for a goal to eventually give a name to every grave or send them home to their families.
I have been there and it is beautiful.
2 things that stand out, graves dated December 7th 1941 and Medal of Honour graves.
Saw Pearl Harbour as well, the Arizona memorial is stunning and the ship is still leaking fuel oil to this day.
 
Point taken. My late Dad's take on Wingate was that he was "bloody barmy." Mind you, as a medic, my Dad was very disturbed by the level of disease and suffering of the men who made Wingate's name, the Chindits.
Another thing I should've mentioned is that it's not only Wingate's remains being dug up, but 8 other men who have to be analyzed. Leave those who are at rest, stay at rest, IMO.

E2A, I misspelled a word that I am more familiar with on the dead hamster website. Forgive me.
 
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buried as unknowns this explains some of them




Some of the Sailors at Pearl Harbor were trapped until Christmas before dying in compartments

that were dry as a bone. Their remains not recovered until months later. This article describes both one of the lost and what was seen when these compartments were finally opened.

They Will Always Be Remembered

Many of the USS Oklahoma dead had basically liquified before being recovered months later

-from watertight compartments. Many also had no ID tags on their remains. men trapped inside survived until just before Christmas 1941 but there was no way to rescue them USS West Virginia crewmen suffered the same fate.

Pearl Harbor: 16 Days To Die -- Trapped By The Memories -- Few Knew The Secret Of The Sunken Battleship; Families Weren't Told Of Sailors' Lingering Deaths | The Seattle Times

Late spring 1942 found Navy salvage teams finally getting to work on the WV. An Inventive series of tremic cement patches were fitted to her port side, and enough water pumped out to partially float the once grand ship. BB48 was nudged across the Harbor into drydock and the grim task of finding bodies began.

For Commander Paul Dice, compartment A-111 was expected to be like the rest: Put on gas masks, place some goo into a bodybag and let the Medical boys worry about identification.

They had seen it all, but this compartment was different. Dice first noticed the interior was dry and flashlight batteries and empty ration cans littered the floor. A manhole cover to a fresh water supply was opened. Then he saw the calendar. It was 12"x14" and marked with big red Xs that ended December 23. Hardened salvage workers wept uncontrollably as they realized the fate of these men. Word quickly spread among salvage crews: Three men had lived for 16 days to suffer the most agonizing deaths among the 2800 victims at Pearl Harbor.
I remember reading of dockyard senterys hearing banging from inside the hulls of some of the ships just after Pearl Harbour. Gradually lessening as the days went on. I thought it was one of the saddest things i'd ever heard of.
 
I remember reading of dockyard senterys hearing banging from inside the hulls of some of the ships just after Pearl Harbour. Gradually lessening as the days went on. I thought it was one of the saddest things i'd ever heard of.
That was also in a documentary about Pearl harbour survivors. The gent being interviewed job was to crawl across the hull tapping and making X's on the plating whenever he got a response knowing full well most would perish. I cannot fathom how that would wear on his soul.
 
That was also in a documentary about Pearl harbour survivors. The gent being interviewed job was to crawl across the hull tapping and making X's on the plating whenever he got a response knowing full well most would perish. I cannot fathom how that would wear on his soul.
Many of the crew o fthe Tirpitz were trapped inside the hull when she turned turtle. When HMS Repulse sank off the coast of Malaya in December 10 1941 she sank within 15 minutes taking 500 of her crew with her. As the water was quite shallow and with the lengh of the ship the bow hit the bottom while the stern was still sticking out of the water.

With the exception of the Arizona and I think the Oklahoma, the other battleships like the Nevada and Texas were refloated, patched up, and used for shore bombardment on D-day, Normandy, and the Pacific.
 

Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
i really admire the determination to repatriate them.
An expensive program. C-17 flights into U-Tapao in Thailand, usually every couple of weeks. Mainly from the Hawaii Air National Guard. From U-Tapao, these Globmaster III flights usually go to Vientiane, Pakse and Savannakhet in Laos, or Da Nang and Hanoi-Noi Bai in Vietnam. The occasional run to Phnom Penh, and recently one to somewhere in Myanmar.

C-130s used to do the up-country pick-ups in Laos, transferring the remains to the C-17 at U-Tapao, but now these fields have been upgraded, the C-17s are now capable of visiting these fields directly.

There has been some talk of extending these flights to include MIAs from the 'hump', the airlift into China from India during WWII.
 
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Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
Point taken. My late Dad's take on Wingate was that he was "bloody barmy." Mind you, as a medic, my Dad was very disturbed by the level of disease and suffering of the men who made Wingate's name, the Chindits.
Many on our outstanding political or military leaders could probably be described as 'bloody barmy', and no doubt in civvie street they were. But such people are a godsend in a war.
 

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