It as if the last 30-40 years of societal change and police reforms slipped Hants Constabulary by - or at least some members of it.Did you notice the section at the end? "Oldfield is also accused of attending work after excessive drinking, and DS Willcox is also alleged to have falsely recorded hours and overtime, according to Hampshire police.".
Someone made a complaint, which was serious enough and credible enough to warrant surveillance. Isn't that a Ministerial-level request? You can't seriously be suggesting that covert surveillance is somehow ungentlemanly, or that the Police are somehow immune? "I say, you there, we're going to be watching and listening to you in order to gather evidence against your thieving or terroristing activities, my good man! Worry not, however, we won't look at any personal emails that you send using your official work IT resources, and we'd certainly never listen to your phone calls". Who knows, perhaps the initial allegations were about corruption rather than bigotry, and that's why the surveillance was put in place? It's all hypothetical. Nice to hear that you don't believe that the Det should ever had tried listening in to PIRA... (and before you say "but that's different", this was the SOCU - they had higher security clearances, they were dealing with organised crime, they are primary targets for attempts at compromise).
For it to have got this far, the case against these officers was obviously well beyond the level of "interview without coffee, watch your language, march him out". I know they do a hard job; I know that people deserve the benefit of the doubt. But these don't exactly sound like top-third coppers... and isn't it interesting that there isn't a rentaquote from the Police Federation about how these good, honest, hard-working coppers are being unjustly accused?
Bang to rights, by the sound of it. Impeccable evidence, unacceptable behaviour, no excuse sufficient. Good riddance.
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Six Hampshire police officers accused of breaching standards
- Thread starter Mike Barton
- Start date
It as if the last 30-40 years of societal change and police reforms slipped Hants Constabulary by - or at least some members of it.
Werewolf
LE
You should treasure it. These days it’s usually ‘mate’, ‘buddy’, ‘bud’, even ‘fellah’.
vvaannmmaann
LE
That's bad enough in Sainsbury's.
Probably only a problem if you were a 'bugee' rather than a 'bugger' - especially if all the 'buggers' were effectively resident magistrates of their time. Take us back a couple of centuries, suffer a few famines here and there and go through the whole process again.
Does your friend know?
Ortholith
LE
I'm not defending these individuals as the allegations about their WhatsApp group are disturbing and, if true, suggest a deliberate campaign of racist bullying.
I am slightly surprised at the number of posts on here saying that once on the clock your behaviour must be impeccable. I reckon you could bug any workplace and within a month you would have sufficient evidence to dismiss most people.
Charging about in front of the public calling them all c***s is not acceptable. Having a moan to a colleague and using inappropriate language in private is a reality of most jobs.
Edited to avoid naughty words as I realised it's Current Affairs.
I am slightly surprised at the number of posts on here saying that once on the clock your behaviour must be impeccable. I reckon you could bug any workplace and within a month you would have sufficient evidence to dismiss most people.
Charging about in front of the public calling them all c***s is not acceptable. Having a moan to a colleague and using inappropriate language in private is a reality of most jobs.
Edited to avoid naughty words as I realised it's Current Affairs.
Werewolf
LE
When Life on Mars became a hit, one of the papers interviewed several ex-coppers from the 70's to ask their opinion on how realistic it was. They said that compared to real DCI's of that era, Gene Hunt was actually quite restrained and mild mannered.
Glasgow_Jock
LE
I read previously that there may have been more sinister jiggery pokery afoot to justify covert surveillance (fiscal irregularities?), which seems more understandable. However, if it's more so an E & D issue then the powers that be have failed to demonstrate sufficient moral courage in dealing with those involved directly.
Either that or as highlighted as well, someone's simply burnt the careers of several officers to enhance their own career. Sky high morale for that regional police service I'm sure if that's the case
Either that or as highlighted as well, someone's simply burnt the careers of several officers to enhance their own career. Sky high morale for that regional police service I'm sure if that's the case
With the consultancy I was with talk such as that in the work place would lead to an immediate suspension; alcohol on the breath likewise. And, as there is an internal slave market in consultancy, toxic behaviour such as that would see client work dry up immediately. You would be let go rather rapidly.
Ortholith
LE
I'm not arguing turning up to work pissed, that is beyond the pale.
What I am saying is that if you bugged any office / staff room / break room you will catch comments from people that violate policy. Those are usually things they would never say in front of the public but act as a 'release valve' in private. There seem to be quite a few posters on here that are willing to state 'anything on company time must be whiter than white' without being realistic about what will actually happen.
I can't think of anything that would destroy team morale faster than thinking everyone you work with is a potential informant waiting to declaim you as a bigot.
Mike Barton
LE
We are perhaps concentrating an awful lot on the word "bugged". These conversations were recorded in the offices of the police station.
In my office one has only to look up at the ceiling and one will see recording devices in the shape of CCTVs that have both video and audio capability, all over the place from the car park to the lobby, in the lift and right into every office.
My office is a very low-security, non-sensitive establishment, I would dare say UK police stations have much more high-tech and sensitive recording devices located all over them, monitored and logged 24 hours a day.
If these officers made their comments in locations where the CCTVs were located, they have little to complain about and can only regret their stupidity. If they deliberately chose to hold their conversations in the few areas of the station not covered by such recording devices, one might suspect illicit activities and understand why their senior officers chose to take the extra surveillance steps.
In my office one has only to look up at the ceiling and one will see recording devices in the shape of CCTVs that have both video and audio capability, all over the place from the car park to the lobby, in the lift and right into every office.
My office is a very low-security, non-sensitive establishment, I would dare say UK police stations have much more high-tech and sensitive recording devices located all over them, monitored and logged 24 hours a day.
If these officers made their comments in locations where the CCTVs were located, they have little to complain about and can only regret their stupidity. If they deliberately chose to hold their conversations in the few areas of the station not covered by such recording devices, one might suspect illicit activities and understand why their senior officers chose to take the extra surveillance steps.
Andy Farman
LE
Recruiting moles at training school (easily spotted as they act like they can walk on water and indeed get away with doing very little work, and what work they do tends to be p**s poor) has always gone on. DPS inserting listening devices into light fittings, wiring up cars and personal radios with no need for a complaint to justify it has been ongoing since the 80s.A bug was placed in the office of the Hampshire police's serious crime squad and six officers have been charged with breaching professional standards for comments that in a previous day might have been dismissed as "off colour".
What surprises me is that if one were to read the threads relating to policing on this site one would be led to believe that such comments went out with the dinosaurs and that UK police services are now thoroughly taken over by knee-taking, woke, rainbow-wearing, social justice warriors. It would appear not, the spirit of Gene Hunt lives on.
I do appreciate this is the CA thread and therefore of a more serious nature but seriously, read the comments and then try and work out what their ARRSE names are.
Opening the case against them, Jason Beer QC said: “It was a unit that was racist – a black officer is described as a ‘pavement special’, ie a mixed-breed dog. People are described as ‘pikeys’; a black officer is accused of behaving like a colonial overseer running a plantation of white people. When speaking to a black officer, a colleague puts on a fake Caribbean accent – in fact he was from Ghana. A detail like that doesn’t matter, he was a black man after all.
“A black officer is accused of being flown to England from Africa in a crate and taken to London zoo; all the time a song is sung in the background to the tune of Buffalo Soldier.”
Beer added that “offensive” photos of black men were shared on a WhatsApp group in reference to the only black officer in the unit.
Beer also said the unit displayed sexism: “Women were called or referred to as ‘whores’, ‘sluts’, ‘sweet tits’ or ‘sugar tits’, ‘Dorises’, ‘a ******* Doris’ … A suspect is called a ‘******* ****’. And the officers ponder amongst themselves if a person using the tannoy system is ‘getting any cock’.”
Beer said the covert recording device caught derogatory terms being used for disabled, gay and transgender people, and suggestions that Albanian nationals “should be shot or even killed with a nerve agent”.
It was also said that “illegal immigrants deserve the death penalty”, Beer told the hearing. “The officers joked about immigrants having a ‘long swim’ and drowning in the sea.”
Edited to add link.
Bug caught police unit making racist and sexist remarks, hearing told
Six Hampshire police serious and organised crime unit officers accused of breaching standardswww.theguardian.com
We used to save our banter for the pub, where DPS would need legal justification to wire it up.
Hants SCS must be a bit thick.
There was a chocolate bar sat on a table unattended for about a week in the canteen in Kilburn police station in about 2003/04 because everyone thought it was a DPS 'integrity test' trap.
Effendi
LE
One does wonder.
When I went back to policing as a special one of my mates who had followed a whole career in blue warned me to keep stumm around colleagues, other people and in the nick, particularly the canteen. It had transpired that the powers that be sent individuals along to various nicks to sit in canteens to earwig on conversations - it eventually dawned on people when an overly high number of interviews without coffee started happening and the odd disciplinary would hit someone.
A mate who moved from specialing to be a regular was on a class trip out from the training centre one day. They travelled to and from their visit location on a hired coach. On the way back from the visit they happened to pass a large layby which had been turned into a pikey encampment, someone commented, "oh look fcuking pikeys". Within half an hour of getting back to the training centre having been suitably bubbled by a brown noser the individual was called to the chief instructors office and read their future - one does not refer to pikeys as pikeys,........apparently.
As to Hants Police: Back in the dim past when I went through Chantmarle one of the lads I teamed up with was from Hants. He was a good lad, bit adventurous and a free spirit, but legally beyond reproach as he had been bought up in the system with his dad being the governor at one of the UK's top secure prisons at the time. Some years laterI bumped into him in Aldershot town in the 80's when I was in the army. We chatted and I asked how the job was going, he told me that he had just resigned from hants and was applying to the Met. The reason being was that he had jokingly said to someone at the end of a particularly long, busy and hard shift that he was off to his room (back when there were still section houses) where he was going to knock back a couple of beers and then smoke a spliff to chill. Anyway, long story short, he collapses in his pit and a couple of hours later is rudely awakened when the drug squad kick in his door, handcuff him, drag him off and search his room, finding not even a packet of fags, or bottle of lemonade.
It ain't just nowadays, it has been going on for years.
Andy Farman
LE
DPS wearing covert chemical 'beer breath emmiters' and deliberately driving as if pissed was another.
They never seemed to plot up the railway stations near headquarters, though. Daily, at Victoria, senior officers could be caught
Andy Farman
LE
I used to instruct IED search techniques. When the supermarket chains were being blackmailed by the Mardi Gras Bomber a DI I really did not get along with, one who had his DCI promotion board on the horizon, thought he could get ahead of the field by putting me up as a suspect. Home and office phone wired up but it was the surveillance team that I twigged to having done the course.
"I wonder who they are following off?....... oh!"
Happy to report that six years later he was still a DI despite transferring to Norfolk.
retread2
LE
Er, I was always a very cheery chap. The original laughing policeman.
A signaller
LE
Charles Penrose walt.
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