Sir Jock Stirrup: Even a US surge won’t beat the Taliban

#21
PartTimePongo said:
Exactly Nige. While he won't be as forthright in his comments as say a certain former 1st SL or Sir Richard about the realities on the ground in Afghanistan , I am left wondering as to whether ground is being prepared for either a tactical withdrawl, a changing of the mission , or indeed my favourite, opening the door for a certain regional superpower to put troops on the ground..
Will they be bringing Division of Human Rights Lawyers with them?

At least the grub will be good - I highly commend the Number 12 with fried rice 8)
 

BiscuitsAB

LE
Moderator
#22
rickshaw-major said:
Hmm - there was a sort of love-in with Stirrup on arrse earlier about how WE did in NI etc. WE did fcuk all - he wasn't there. The only smug fcuker is him.

The man has no moral fibre (and I don't give a fcuk about him landing a stricken aircraft - it was his job!). He should have refused to stand in for Dannat and forced the issue.

He is wnaker of the first order and not fit to lead fighting troops.

Do the Crabs have Mess Webleys?

Edited once for angry spelling :evil:

What he said.
 
#24
Don't be taken in so easily. For their own reasons, certain parts of the media have been keen to make it appear that CDS has called the Army 'smug and complacent' but how many of you bothered to listen to what he actually said? (link)

For example:

"I think that we were a bit too complacent about our experiences in Northern Ireland and, certainly, on occasion, we were a bit too smug about those experiences. You are only as good as your next success, not your last one. You can never rest on your laurels and I think we may have done that. That's not the case at the moment... we are in the throes of a fundamental reappraisal of our doctrine and training and our structures for counter-insurgency. But I would accept the charge that for a while there we were perhaps too slow in doing that. If you go around and ask enough Americans you will find some who are critical to a degree. . . of the way that the British do things and the approach that the British take.”

He added, however: “We have to understand that our military structures are different, our social structures within our countries are different, and therefore there are inevitable differences in the way we approach some of our tasks.”
This is not simply a case of a crab slanging off the pongoes. He was speaking in a much wider context. For my money, this article in the Economist, based on the interview, contains a few home truths that CDS seems to have grasped but others are reluctant to acknowledge. The analysis shows that the malaise rests not only with our Armed Forces, brave and professional as they are, but spreads much further afield, perhaps even as far as our national psyche.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#25
Sir Jock Stirrup - Labour's New Man.

They had to pick a career lackey, and they got their man.
 
#26
Arrogance beyond belief, how can he comment on NI and tactics on the ground, there is a big difference between theory and practice, get on the ground if you think you can do it better "Strap On".

If the forces as a whole was not bleeding experienced SNCO/JNCO's who are getting out in droves due to tour fatigue and general low morale, then we wouldn't have to promote less experinced people just to fill Junior Commanders posts. Retention Dear Jock!

All 3 forces are doing the job on a shoe string budget, we don't make the decisions about procuring kit , such as Helicopters that don't fly in certain weather, or if I have heard correctly have the budget MASSIVELY overspent this year again due to your and others who command complet ineptitude, which will mean even more cuts. Deep Joy!

Who suffers? the regular blokes on the ground, but we get on with it. Maybe Mr Brown and You should do the world a favour, it would only cost 8pence... buy a round and use it on yourself! If it is going wrong big chap take a look in the mirror "Man Up or Sp[eak Up" either that crawl away and resign.

Oh and if you are bringing out a book can I have the first copy I have run out of toilet paper!

Rant Over!!
 
#27
It is sadly unremarkable that such a man- completely lacking in any soldiering skills should be our CDS. If morale is to be stiffened unsupported and general comments about Northern Ireland and complacency are simply ridiculous. Since NI finished we have had GW1, Bosnia, Kosovo, GW2 and there are very few left who actually saw anything approaching a real firefight, let alone suicide bombers in Northern Ireland.

He last appears to have been near actual involvement in Operations in 1992 (so only 15 years ago then!!)

As the man responsible for our equipment Capability planning in 2002 he did a great job with Snatch - perhaps that is his experience of NI!!
 
#28
sarge_massage_my_passage said:
The more I read about Jock, the more I dont like it, bring back Dannant
Why where has Dannant gone??
 
#29
Achilles_Toe said:
sarge_massage_my_passage said:
The more I read about Jock, the more I dont like it, bring back Dannant
Why where has Dannant gone??
He hands over as CGS v v soon. He is oot. The reason?

Block on promotion to head of British armed forces

In June 2008 the Sunday Times reported that Dannatt's expected routine promotion to Chief of the Defence Staff had been personally blocked by Prime Minister Gordon Brown "because of his repeated calls for better pay and conditions for servicemen"
 
#30
Biped said:
Sir Jock Stirrup - Labour's New Man.

They had to pick a career lackey, and they got their man.
Not that I am defending CDS, but if he WERE a government lackey wouldn't he be saying exactly the opposite - given that HMG is committed to staying in the region?
 
#31
Sven said:
Biped said:
Sir Jock Stirrup - Labour's New Man.

They had to pick a career lackey, and they got their man.
Not that I am defending CDS, but if he WERE a government lackey wouldn't he be saying exactly the opposite - given that HMG is committed to staying in the region?
Depends what he has been told to say!

Do you think his arrse is sore from being used as a glove puppet? :twisted:
 
#32
Sven said:
Biped said:
Sir Jock Stirrup - Labour's New Man.

They had to pick a career lackey, and they got their man.
Not that I am defending CDS, but if he WERE a government lackey wouldn't he be saying exactly the opposite - given that HMG is committed to staying in the region?
he is briefing against the surge because we cannot contribute. He is simply getting the justification for not comitting more troops in before the request comes from the states.
 
#33
#34
crabtastic said:
You don't suppose that Stirrup's assessment has anything to do with this at all?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18337.html

PTP proposed


or whether this is some sort of unannounced manoeuvrist approach to Afghanistan?
Or here's a suggestion a tad more radical. Give the Taliban their own autonomous homeland?

I suggest a line from Zaranj, through Girishk and Khandahar to the Pakistan Border. Maybe extend the Eastern side Northwards as a strip.

They can then grow their opium and revert to year zero Islam in peace , with the proviso from us that there will be proper malletings if they cross over. Invite the Chinese in in force to protect their investments in the region.

Just thinking aloud, feel free to pull it to pieces.
 
#35
PartTimePongo said:
crabtastic said:
You don't suppose that Stirrup's assessment has anything to do with this at all?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18337.html

PTP proposed


or whether this is some sort of unannounced manoeuvrist approach to Afghanistan?
Or here's a suggestion a tad more radical. Give the Taliban their own autonomous homeland?

I suggest a line from Zaranj, through Girishk and Khandahar to the Pakistan Border. Maybe extend the Eastern side Northwards as a strip.

They can then grow their opium and revert to year zero Islam in peace , with the proviso from us that there will be proper malletings if they cross over. Invite the Chinese in in force to protect their investments in the region.

Just thinking aloud, feel free to pull it to pieces.
I like the Chinese option - Terry could have a personal guardian supplied by the CPLA - one each!
 
#36
I'm liking the Chinese option more and more. Give them roadbuilding and infrastructure , knowing they've got the manpower to get the job done and banjo any interference while they're doing it.

If the Chinese really are coming out from behind the Bamboo curtain , then it needs to be encouraged. I have no reason to doubt AJ's analysis and I have a feeling the Chinese are just waiting to be formally approached.
 

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