Discussion in 'Int Corps' started by reebrov, Dec 20, 2008.

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  1. Brilliant isn't it. It will inform and enhance the SRM process. But does it really replace or change/enhances the PS Cycle? Is it not extra work for an already overstrechted Bn or a really great tool that most sections haven't got the resources to complete - especially as the Bde SO2 wants the (ummm) PS cycle to be completed in time. I don't know - discuss....
  2. 32 Views 2nite and no reply or opinion!! must b non 2 MI Bn or scared 2 MIbn pers!!! Any OC's, WO's or SNCO's....
  3. Well as far as I know CI Sections are under TACON 2 MI Bn, so all it'll take is the 2MI CoC to make some sort of decision to tell The G2's we're doing things differently from now on. Its no good briefing the troops that"PS is dead" and "PS is low priority" when nothing actually changes. The SIPE process will not work unless something radical is done re the PS cycle, its just tooooooo much for already stretched sections.
  4. If SIPE is a methodology for identifying vulnerabilities, in order to counter them, then it surely has a place in the golf bag of capabilities?

    Perhaps a more burning question is: has HMG hoisted on board the principles of Risk Management? Does the senior risk owner in each TLB have total confidence that his top 10 assets have been identified. Against this context do they know what the top 10 risks they are carrying are, as well as the appropriate risk mitigation strategies?

    If TLBs do not have a view, they how can Ministries, and in turn the Cabinet Office know what they need to do?

    If assetts and risks are not being identified up the management chain, then whatever survey / audit methodology you choose to use is academic.

    Since leaving, some of us have been able to apply this in parts of commerce to good effect. The first CO of 2MI used to tell us that security must enable, and not constrain the operation. A Porche 911 has excellent brakes, not so it can sit in the middle lane at 45mph, but because it may need to go faster than any other car on the road.

    You might take the p155 out of ISO 27001, but apply it correctly and you might just find where the PS cycle has got broken. This will never be resolved at Section or Coy level. Somebody needs to get into the trench at Land and Army Board level ( having got a grasp of the issues first). Could it really be that it is not sexy enough?

    My mind was always focussed, because like many others, I had also been stuck at the end of a frangible intelligence or logisitics feed, where the operational value of assetts had not been recognised.

    If you can not show how PS contributes to enabling warfighting capability, you might as well hand over to the RMP and the Worshipful Company of Security Professionals

    Pass my TNF Windstopper and PSD operator's grab-bag will you? That's my Cosworth Granada 3.5 twin-turbo outside.

    PS: I'm sure there is another SIPE thread running somewhere.
  5. You're right, there is....maybe a Mod can merge? - Doh!
  6. When has PS ever been important? :D

    Real int'ers hang out the back of 43's, brief GOC's and fight the commie (sorry Genforce!) threat.

    CI? Bollox to it!
  7. Is that you Hibs Bez / Ad Arsetra ?

    Once, following a strategic attrition operation by THEM, after which a few barrels had been cracked, I went back to see where we had got the enabling intelligence from. Three years previously, folio 1 on Vol 1 started off:

    [align=center] " I saw Sgt Major P***** and Captain L***** from Field Security and thought they might be interested, I crossed the street to join them...."[/align]
  8. Just fishing for a bite.... was hoping to land the infamous catfish known as Old Gregg. Not to worry though, I have plenty more bait... ;)
  9. Sub – just got back from visiting The Marsh Arabist i.e `Marshy` (the voice of common sense security – his words not mine) down on his colonial style farmstead in deepest darkest 9 feet below sea level, Kent.

    He apologises for not contributing for some time his words of wisdom but has been unable to access the interweb due to his missus placing `defence in depth` measures around the office (including hiding his CME kit) to prevent him communicating with the outside world whilst he is in the recovery phase of his latest health holiday.

    In between, taking copious amounts of pharmaceutical pain reliving products, showing me his front and rear wounds obtained on BUPA and a demonstration of `actions on colostomy compromise` (brings a whole new meaning to the term `bag fit` by the way) we had a quick 30 minutes perusing the INT CORPS forum. It was quite a pleasure seeing him wince in pain with laughter when reading some of the NAAFI contributions!

    He also commented that FIS need not recruit anyone at DSL anymore as the info on service language training on ARRSE is worth the broadband connection fee paid to the MTS, VimpleCom or MegaFon companies. :oops: We both would like to see the I2 Analysis Charts for this one :twisted:

    Hopefully, the contemporaneous notes that I took during my visit (reproduced in condensed form faithfully below) are an accurate reflection of his ramblings on SIPE and qualifications – as usual he failed to appreciate the ABC rules during his verbal respite which he claims should be blamed on the time he has to clean up the saliva deposits on his `Get Tour In` t-shirt circa 1979 !

    Marshy pointed out that SIPE maybe is a new risk management tool for the military but is not a new idea. In the commercial world the use of the Predictive Security Environment (PSE) methodology:

    originally formulated in 2001/2002 by two former INT CORPS Warrant Officers (one with considerable Op Int background, the other a PS/CI background) has been very successful in utilising and demonstrating to public and commercial clients holistic INT CORPS tradecraft skills to identify and mitigate threats and vulnerabilities across the perceived and actual threat spectrum.

    This methodlogy has obviously been enhanced (with contributions from the likes of myself - and `Medals` :roll: and FatMac 8) ) over the years and is now a significant Unique Selling Point (USP) in their marketing arsenal for their all encompassing Business Protection service. Board level risk Managers absolutely love it !

    They must be doing OK as the driveway of one of their associates houses down in Surrey looks like something out of CRIBS !

    Advert over! Even when he is ill he does not stop!

    `Marshy` also blurted out (in his drug infused state) something about the recent (and very welcome from what I have read) recognition (up to NVQ Level 7/ Masters degree) from City & Guilds as to the vocational and personal experience gained in Security Management obtained during an INT CORPS career. This, combined with the Intelligence Management qualification (also from C&G) should dispel the myth that it is the INT CORPS that are the `security gurus` and not others within the military community (less the RAF of course – put that in because you know who is lurking) who play at gifted amateur status.

    Additionally, with this qualification those who claim previous `coal face experience` in military security management skill-set will be dissuaded from white lies on their CVs or marketing blurb. To ensure this Marshy, has through his connections, given the new accreditation a wide distribution throughout the `security profession – including the `bodies` and additionally other educational establishment both private and commercial.

    Having examined the matrix of requirements myself I am certainly going to apply (I have the Intelligence qualification through the 2 year grandfather rights already) using my additional commercial experience to evaluate if I can obtain the higher award.

    I left Marshy in a happy but disturbed state as the District Nurse was due to remove his rear wound stitches this afternoon and apparently she wears stockings and is extremely fit !

    He is open for visits (both physical and virtual) from the Corps community over the Xmas/New Year and intends to be back on track at numerous social establishments in London Town from mid to late January 2009.

    Me Old China Graph
  10. Hmmmmmmmmmm......while you're re-enacting the cold war some of us are actually doing a proper job in the real world, with actual results and consequences for the protection of HM military and the better prosecution of the defence of the horrendous troll :wink:
  11. I stumbled across this thread during a brief moment respite from the madness that is 'the last shopping weekend before Christmas'. I am known to a few privileged members of this site and so I realise what i say could come back and find me, but hey, sometimes these things need to be said, and ill take it on the chin - its not like I have much of a career! haha.

    Seriously though, I have recently completed what turned out to be a bitter sweet tour of 2MI, more sweet than bitter I hasten to add, however, SIPE was something that I saw emerge and grow into what it has become today. Speaking as someone who was very much at the coalface of it all, the thing that baffled me, and added to my lack of tolerance for SIPE was that no one ever fully, or reasonably, justified why we were doing it, and that wasnt for lack of asking 'boss, what is the point in this?' The whole process never seemed to lead to anything we didn’t already know, or for example, a simple google search didnt soon uncover, eg ethnic diversity in counties, to name one off the top of my head.

    The question I kept asking myself, and others (with three of more stripes I might add) was, 'why are we doing this? Surely the relevant SB's and other home office related agencies know this information and also have far better sources of intelligence than google to gauge the threats in the area. Now, I know that SB aren’t always forthcoming with information that could be of interest to us in the world of Military Security, but that is down to local section liaison, which should happen regardless of SIPEs existence!?

    Now dont get me wrong, I am not SIPE-bashing for the sake of it, if some one can reasonably justify why its a good idea and what it has to offer us, and why we should plough man-hours into it (again speaking from the low end of the coal-face) and WITHOUT injecting lots of ridiculous corporate language, I will be more than happy to accept it and do my best to support it on my inevitable return to 2MI.

    I really don't want to come across as a whining scrote, I am just totally confused and a little annoyed that, as intelligent people (no comments please) the only answer we got was either lost in a white nice of techno-corporate-babble or just told 'do it cuz you have been told to' Id like to add that these points are by no means exhaustive or hugely in depth - there’s only so much time on a leave and on a shopping Saturday to work! I merely wanted to air some of my questions and views to a larger, and hopefully more receptive audience!

    I look forward to a reasoned and intelligent response.....and getting the brews on, i know my place.

    CG - now returning to the mayhem and confusion of Christmas shopping - joy.
  12. The trouble is that 'SIPE' too often becomes a process in its own right without anyone understanding that is just a frame work (like plain old IPE) to assist in quantifying what the enemy is doing and why. We get so wrapped around the wheel of collecting infomation to fill databases that allegedly tell us the 'answer' that we forget to focus on the enemy and where we should be looking. We did SIPE in NI in the'olden days' with various bespoke systems (and the odd multi-coloured map). SIPE is just a tool to process the info collected into some sort of useful int that ought to inform the analysed int picture. Do that and you can then identify where the greatest threat and risk lie and target your finite human and other resources. This would get us away from the ridged PS cycle that forces to spread those finite resources thinnly across the entire Defence piece.

    The biggest problem is that too many people get promotion/MBEs for reinventing wheels, or setting up databases etc and we forget to go back to first principles.
  13. All those guard towers and CCTV aren't going to stop 1 CAAC rolling over your fenceline as the SS 21's scream overheard. Run kids - the reds are coming!

    They barely even stop Yorkshire teenagers seeking their next ASBO!
  14. After Greetings

    I can only surmise that you must be refering to some Wii or X Box related fantasy game? With the exception of Basra, I would be intrested to know in the first life world where, with the exception of Basra, you might envisage a 9K79 Tochka to be within 115 miles of a British Barracks?

    From reading other posts on this thread, it might seem that colleagues from units like Vympel might have a better idea where the key nodes are in your critical defence infrastructure, than you do yourselves.

    We know that British soldiers will fight like lions, Arnhem is a classic example. But, look, you can barely hold ground now against a bunch of lightly armed Pashtu. So how long will you be able to sustain that fight when your command, control and logisitics infrastructure are in tatters?

    Did you notice what happened in Estonia last May? That was a small percentage of what could be coming your way. ( and don't think your Nokia is going to bail you out this time)

    It will all be over before you have even left Pops or Eddies.
  15. What a festive conversation this is.