Sinn Feinn or the BNP

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Howay_the_Lads, Jan 19, 2006.

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  1. Just playing Devils Advocate, it crossed my mind recently that under todays political climate that it may actually be okay for members of HM Forces to be members of Republican Sinn Feinn (BEFORE THE INSULTS COME WINGING MY BEAR WITH ME)

    On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge and again hyperthetical it is illegal to be a member of the BNP...purely hyperthetical questions you understand.

    I am not a Republican nor am I or do I advocate the actions of the BNP.

    I would just like to know.
  2. Well as Sinn Fein are responsible for the terrorist deaths of many thousands of people including many troops, no doubt this government will allow that.

    The BNP however whose leader is on trial as we speak for warning against terrorism is facing being banned.

    Irrespective of your politics there seems to be a double standard here.

    No soldier should be a member of any political party, you should be allowed your own opinion, as long as it doesn't influence how you treat people or how you do your job. What this government is doing is rooting out anyone it considers a political opponent. If you disagree with Neue Arbeit, that makes you an extremist as far as they are concerned. It doesn't cross their mind that they are the true facists.
  3. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    As far as I'm aware, membership of specific political parties isn't 'illegal' but clearly there are some cases where membership would appear to be incompatible with service in the British Army, and SinnFein would currently be one of these: you couldn't be charged or court-martialled for it but you would almost certainly face an administrative discharge if you were a genuine Sinn Fein supporter. I'm not sure of the exact position on the BNP right now, but a few years ago a soldier was reported to me as a member - his membership card had been found during an RMP search when he was suspected of theft - and I sought guidance about it: I was told that it would only be an issue if he was in a 'sensitive' posting in which case he would be unlikely to reach the vetting requirements. Due to his trade this was unlikely and the matter was allowed to drop, although doubtless someone, somewhere, made a note of it.
  4. The odd thing is, most security threats to this country have always come from the left wing or members of the labour party. I don't think there has been an instance of any members of the BNP being a security threat. Once more double standards apply.
  5. Exactly Herrenbloke.
  6. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    Double standards? Membership of extreme left parties is just as innappropriate as membership of extreme right parties from a security vetting point of view but that wasn't the original question. And when you say 'most security threats have always come...' etc etc, that was certainly true during the Cold War but not necessarily before. I seem to recall that the major security threat between 1933 and 1945 came from people who, whilst describing themselves as socialists, combined their socialism with racist nationalism... a bit like the BNP really.
  7. And what makes you think our government doesn't have extreme left members in key cabinet posts? Former CND, former Communists (I use the term former loosely) That is why no serving soldier should be in a political party of any persuasion. You take the Queens shilling, you do your job regardless of your own personal feelings or beliefs. The only way to be fair is to ban all membership of politically affiliated organisiations includings "Diversity" groups such as the Gay and lesbian Forum etc. Your loyalty is to your country and you must be seen to be impartial irrespective. There has been more than one occasion in my service that I have had to act against my own conscience but being someone that is a man of his word, I will always stick by my oath of allegiance. Once I leave the job I will then be free to persue my own path just like any other citizen. The fact that we may not have a democracy left then is a moot point.
  8. Herrenbloke - and all others of your ilk.

    Your 'party' stands for hate, regardless of how you dress it up, or make feeble comparisons with the Communists, CND or anyone else for that matter.

    A case in point. Mrs Doctrinus had to give an EO presentation yesterday to a group of soldiers. In the audience was a noted supporter of the sort of tosh you ascribe to. This ghastly individual essentially tried to subvert the discussion into a tirade about how (and I quote) 'a black man can't be British' and 'Muslims don't believe in freedom.'

    Needless to say, Mrs D swept him away with an argument based on reality, facts and standards and values, but let's face it, that's not hard when you're dealing with the illogical, the rabid and the plain monstrous.

  9. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    Many people find that they mature and their views mellow as they get older. There is nothing unusual about student radicals from both left and right tempering their views as they get older and spend more time in contact with everyday life: or maybe you think there is a conspiracy by die-hard Communists to seize control of the levers of state power and impose a coercive Socialist Utopia on us? I can't say I've noticed if there is.
  10. What you have just said there is bang on the money. In my opinion we are just another form of hired heavies. Going round the Global estates doing the will of our bosses. Nothing more. When we leave and we are no longer in a position of responsibility then we can carry on with supporting our own beliefs on this subject.
  11. being slightly devils advocate, if one speaks of Sinn Fein (as in St. Gerry and the peacemakers) then membership isn't really incompatable.

    SF accepts the principle of consent, they accept that Northern Ireland is legally part of the United Kingdom and they accept that the Government of the Republic of Ireland is the legal government of Ireland and that it should hold no territorial claim to Northern Ireland.

    they may be lying, murderous shites, but thats what they say in public and agree to in writing.

    Republican Sinn Fein is a rather different box of frogs (they are the abstentionists who left PSF in 1986 and went on to form RSF and CIRA) they believe that the legal authority to hold the powers and authority of the Republic of Ireland was held by the second Dial and its last surviving members gave that authority to the 'safe keeping' of the Army Council of the IRA (in the late 1950's i think) which became the AC PIRA and upon the '86 split transfered to AC CIRA as the holders of the title 'last true republicans'. RSF therefore believe that a couple of old men getting pissed on 'spesh' on a park bench in the deep - and safe - south of the republic are the true 'Government of Ireland'.

    i've no real idea of the policies and beliefs of the BNP, as i don't want to hose down my PC after visiting their website.
  12. cpunk wrote:

    or maybe you think there is a conspiracy by die-hard Communists to seize control of the levers of state power and impose a coercive Socialist Utopia on us? I can't say I've noticed if there is.

    I'm sure Nick Griffin would find that amusing if he wasn't in court for thought crime.

    Darth wrote:

    'a black man can't be British' and 'Muslims don't believe in freedom.'

    Well actually Darth, I dont subscribe to the point of view that a member of an ethnic minority can't be British. As a matter of fact one of my close friends is of Indian descent and he's as patriotic and considers himself as British as anyone. I would certainly fight his corner if someone were to suggest otherwise. What you will find with all true nationalists is we welcome those that share a love of our country and the ideals that have been built up over thousands of years of our history. I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to race, those who wish to settle in UK and can contribute to the good and benefit of the nation should be made welcome. Those whose views or conduct are incompatable or who find our history traditions "Offensive" are free to leave and find a country more to their liking. Simple!

    As for the Muslim remark, their loyalty is to their religion, their religion orders them to dominate and impose Sharia law which is in itself incompatable with democracy as we understand it. It is all in the Koran and they quote it often enough to justify their actions. Islam is nothing more than a multi racial political / religious movement. Are we to be forbidden from criticisng someone elses politics? Down that road leads dictatorship.
  13. My thoughts Exactly
  14. Before I post this story, I am not a fascist, communist, Nazi or any of the persuasions detailed below. I am in fact a right winger, but none of the current parties appeal to my tastes.

    The best one i've encountered so far was at the freshers fair at my university:

    Leaflet Distributor: Hello, im distributing for Respect

    Me: Yeah

    LD: Yeah, we have a large following at this campus

    Me: Oh right (looking around, walls covered with posters of Galloway the tosser etc)

    LD: Would you like to join our Respect Society

    (Now at this point, I thought i'd see just how much they knew about their subject......)

    Me: Are there any other political societies?

    LD: Ummm, a few

    Me: For instance, is there a BNP society?

    LD: Absolutely not, but there is a communist one

    Me: Oh right, and why is there no BNP society

    LD: Because they are FASCISTS

    Me: Do you know what fascism is?

    LD: Its what the Nazis where

    Now, not being a supporter of the BNP in any way shape or form, i was just on the wind-up. But its still a valid point. Why is there no BNP society at my university when theres one for every other party, including the Communists!

    By far the best point however, is the LD's last comment:

    Leaflet Distributor: Its what the Nazis where

    There is a major difference between fascism and Nazism, which can be summed up by a simple formula:

    Fascism + Racism = Nazism

    All Fascism means is a right wing state with a one party/one person ruling body. Even in WWII the SS had to go into Italy to further their final solution and show Mussolini how to do things their way......

    One of my pet hates, students who get their political beliefs from Green Day lyrics and George Galloway, being a student myself, they cast shame on us all.

    If you are going to argue with a history student who has a massive interest in politics, get your facts right first.
  15. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    He's in court for alleged speech crime, which is slightly different. If I said to you: 'Herrenbloke, go and burn down that synagogue; and, by the way, all Muslims want to rape your sister', I would have committed a crime by inciting you to commit a racially motivated crime, and by inciting you to feel racial hatred - which obviously you don't. That's somewhat different to simply holding extreme views in private. Clearly that's a tad more clear cut than the Griffin case, but some of what he is alleged to have said is open to the interpretation that he was inciting racial hatred. In any case, he isn't guilty yet: doubtless a jury of free-born British citizens will decide the case on its merits: or are they part of the conspiracy too?
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