Sink Regiments

#1
Without naming names,  it is fairly clear that there are some infantry regiments that simply are not up to the job.  Bad officers/no officers, piss-poor NCOs, drug problems, poor drills, low morale, poor discipline; these are all factors that appear to strike 1 or 2 regiments more than the rest.  

Does anyone else think that this is a disgrace (after all these clowns might end up on your flank)?  If so what should be done about it?  Why do some regiments suffer and others not?
 
#2
BS,

Have the courage of your convictions: name them

Cheers,
msr
 
#3
As a clever man once said:  There is no such thing as bad soldiers, just bad bittersubalterns.  Oh alright, he said bad officers ;)
 
#4
Bad officers/no officers, piss-poor NCOs, drug problems, poor drills, low morale, poor discipline; these are all factors that appear to strike 1 or 2 regiments more than the rest.  
I agree and they get their reward in their recruiting and retention rate. This is judge and jury. UOTCs, potential officers and recruits soon find out the worse Regiments and avoid them.

When we next have to amalgamate a Regiment then the Regiment with the lowest manning levels will go first. Sad but true.
 
#5
When we next have to amalgamate a Regiment then the Regiment with the lowest manning levels will go first. Sad but true.
Perhaps; but then manning levels aren't always the clearest indicator, and aren't always the reason for amalgamation.

Story told by a (Scottish Infantry) CO. His Regiment has a recruiting footprint that covers well under a million people, and has a low-single-figure number of recruiting offices. He was talking to another CO who had a recruiting footprint covering well over 2.5 million, and nineteen recruiting offices.....

....similarly, 1991 saw two fully-recruited Scottish regiments slated for amalgamation, while an under-recruited regiment weren't. Guess the regiment of DInf?

The real salt in the wound came after the announcement, when DInf's lot had to come to one of the two slated for amalgamation, and ask for a rifle platoon to take them up to strength for their forthcoming NI tour......

Don't come over as chippy, do I :) :) ?
 
#7
Black Watch by the sounds of it - offices in Perth, Dundee, Glenrothes/kirkaldy/Dunfermline and that's it......
 
#8
Was that the old Dinf's parent Reg?
Never understood why the Gordons got slotted, apart from it being a younger Reg than most of the rest of ScotDiv.  :(
 
#12
....similarly, 1991 saw two fully-recruited Scottish regiments slated for amalgamation, while an under-recruited regiment weren't. Guess the regiment of DInf?

Go on, Gravelbelly, tell who the reg's involved were!
 
#14
....similarly, 1991 saw two fully-recruited Scottish regiments slated for amalgamation, while an under-recruited regiment weren't. Guess the regiment of DInf?
Gravelbelly,

Yes.. I know exactly what you are talking about . . however what I can tell you is what went on behind the scenes !

D inf was well aware of the accusations if his Regiment was left alone and so he quite rightly let his staff work out the details, based on a variety of factors including recruiting, retention, population density within recruiting areas and infantry footprint. They produced a list of Regiments in priority order that should be amalgamated based on hard empirical evidence. Everyone was aware of the senistivity of this and so the decision had to be based on facts. One of the Regiments selected to go was D Inf's Regiment.

The paper was staffed within the MOD and after considerable departmental discussion which I will not bore you with, the line was drawn so far down a list of Regiments. D Infs Regiment survived and others did not. It was as simple as that.

The concern now is... another peace divendend. The NI talks are successful, troops are extracted and we are forced to give up another couple of Infantry Regiments.

I hear what you say about Scottish Infantry battalions being well recruited but the facts are now they are not, and have not been for some time. The major factor against, regrettably, is the low population density supporting so many Scottish Infantry Regiments. I am not being anti Scottish but it is a fact. Thery are struggling despite help from additional Commonwealth Soliders.

Commanding Officers have been devoting a considerable amount of Regimental money as well as their own manpower as recruiters in order to maintain manning figures. Sad I know. Everyone  infantryman has a part to play in ensuring our Regiments remain well manned because if they not . .  :(
 
#15
Ramillies, one of the worst things to happen to the Scots Infantry was the loss of their TA battalions - this effectively stripped the army out of the community in a significant number of places North of the border.

I say this based on my experience in the RRTT team for both 3BW as was and the 51st Highland Regt as now is and with dealings with 1 BW RRTT team over a 2 year period.  I have also worked on launching the Army's latest careers web sites for the Regular Army and the TA.

As you correctly mention - Scotlands population is declining and the pool is small when compared to most of England.  Though there is a desire still to soldier and retain the Scottish regiments - it would be a bitter shame to loose any more and i would guess cause even more disinterest in the Army.  

From my own interviews with potential recruits in the NE and Inverness most wanted to be Gordon Highlanders or Queens Own, but as those options no longer existed they didn't want to soldier at all - a very sad state of affairs.  This i think is the crux of the recruiting problem in Scotland - most recruits want to join their local / family regiment - when it is amalgamated or disbanded they loose interest.

However, recruitment is not helped by the lack of recruiting offices or foot print on the ground.  There is also the problem of apathy and the Army's image as a whole the UK civ pop.

Lots of small and big issues, but i believe that the Army is making the effort to address this.
 
#16
one of the worst things to happen to the Scots Infantry was the loss of their TA battalions
I agree but it was not only Scottish but it was also the horrific cuts that occurred about 5 yrs ago across the whole TA Inf. This has been accepted as a mistake in official circles, but the damage has been done and it is not possible to reform them.

This i think is the crux of the recruiting problem in Scotland - most recruits want to join their local / family regiment - when it is amalgamated or disbanded they loose interest.
This is the strength of our Regimental system. Soldiers want to join Regiments that have a history and that their fathers, and fathers father have fought in with great success. Newly amalgamated Regiments do not yet have a history. Non military people do not understand the strength of feeling and passion that comes from belonging to a famous Regiment with a glorious history. In these days of split famillies, young men want a sense of belonging and to be part of that strong camarderie that their parents and grandparents talked so fondly about.

There is also the problem of apathy and the Army's image as a whole the UK civ pop.
Yes but with the foot and mouth, firemans strike and GW2 the tide is turning. It will never turn completly as our nation is a fickle one with short memories but there is no doubting the strong strength of feeling towards the Armed Forces concerning Iraq. The Armed Forces unite this nation. Irrespective of the colour of political party, they all support the us when we deploy.

This Government are starting to realise what an asset our Armed Forces are. They have never failed the government of the day, and never will do. This is more that can be said for the Health Service, Prison Service, Education Department and so on !
 
#19
From my own interviews with potential recruits in the NE and Inverness most wanted to be Gordon Highlanders or Queens Own
very true, I was going to go Gordons myself until word came through that the campaign to save the regiment had failed (in hindsight, did it ever stand a chance of succeeding). I lost enthusiasm for joining shortly after....
 
#20
This is all good stuff but misses my point a bit.
Officers won't join a crap mob, and this will eventually (probably) manifest itself in levels of professionalism and manning.  This may or may not result in amalgamation eventually.

What about NOW!

Allowing this state of affairs is nothing less than a betrayal of the decent Lancashire or Liverpool lads (for eg).  They deserve an Army that even appears to give a toss about them.

More importantly, what if one of these showers were on your flank?

Why not have a hit squad like they do with sink comprehensives?  Crack CO, QM and a posse of Sgts or OCs?  A damn good training package and a morale raising posting?

Any ideas?
 

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