Sink Regiments

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by bittersubaltern, Apr 15, 2003.

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  1. Without naming names,  it is fairly clear that there are some infantry regiments that simply are not up to the job.  Bad officers/no officers, piss-poor NCOs, drug problems, poor drills, low morale, poor discipline; these are all factors that appear to strike 1 or 2 regiments more than the rest.  

    Does anyone else think that this is a disgrace (after all these clowns might end up on your flank)?  If so what should be done about it?  Why do some regiments suffer and others not?
  2. msr

    msr LE


    Have the courage of your convictions: name them

  3. As a clever man once said:  There is no such thing as bad soldiers, just bad bittersubalterns.  Oh alright, he said bad officers ;)
  4. I agree and they get their reward in their recruiting and retention rate. This is judge and jury. UOTCs, potential officers and recruits soon find out the worse Regiments and avoid them.

    When we next have to amalgamate a Regiment then the Regiment with the lowest manning levels will go first. Sad but true.
  5. Perhaps; but then manning levels aren't always the clearest indicator, and aren't always the reason for amalgamation.

    Story told by a (Scottish Infantry) CO. His Regiment has a recruiting footprint that covers well under a million people, and has a low-single-figure number of recruiting offices. He was talking to another CO who had a recruiting footprint covering well over 2.5 million, and nineteen recruiting offices.....

    ....similarly, 1991 saw two fully-recruited Scottish regiments slated for amalgamation, while an under-recruited regiment weren't. Guess the regiment of DInf?

    The real salt in the wound came after the announcement, when DInf's lot had to come to one of the two slated for amalgamation, and ask for a rifle platoon to take them up to strength for their forthcoming NI tour......

    Don't come over as chippy, do I :) :) ?
  6. Which regiment did he ask?
    Gordons :) or Queens Own  :p
  7. Black Watch by the sounds of it - offices in Perth, Dundee, Glenrothes/kirkaldy/Dunfermline and that's it......
  8. Was that the old Dinf's parent Reg?
    Never understood why the Gordons got slotted, apart from it being a younger Reg than most of the rest of ScotDiv.  :(
  9. PWRR?? ?? ??
  10. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Not Squidgies - fully (over) recruited, and doing OK, thank you.  Try further north ....
  11. at time of the Gordons massacre - 1991
  12. ....similarly, 1991 saw two fully-recruited Scottish regiments slated for amalgamation, while an under-recruited regiment weren't. Guess the regiment of DInf?

    Go on, Gravelbelly, tell who the reg's involved were!
  13. Hmmm, not quite got that quote thing sussed yet.
  14. Gravelbelly,

    Yes.. I know exactly what you are talking about . . however what I can tell you is what went on behind the scenes !

    D inf was well aware of the accusations if his Regiment was left alone and so he quite rightly let his staff work out the details, based on a variety of factors including recruiting, retention, population density within recruiting areas and infantry footprint. They produced a list of Regiments in priority order that should be amalgamated based on hard empirical evidence. Everyone was aware of the senistivity of this and so the decision had to be based on facts. One of the Regiments selected to go was D Inf's Regiment.

    The paper was staffed within the MOD and after considerable departmental discussion which I will not bore you with, the line was drawn so far down a list of Regiments. D Infs Regiment survived and others did not. It was as simple as that.

    The concern now is... another peace divendend. The NI talks are successful, troops are extracted and we are forced to give up another couple of Infantry Regiments.

    I hear what you say about Scottish Infantry battalions being well recruited but the facts are now they are not, and have not been for some time. The major factor against, regrettably, is the low population density supporting so many Scottish Infantry Regiments. I am not being anti Scottish but it is a fact. Thery are struggling despite help from additional Commonwealth Soliders.

    Commanding Officers have been devoting a considerable amount of Regimental money as well as their own manpower as recruiters in order to maintain manning figures. Sad I know. Everyone  infantryman has a part to play in ensuring our Regiments remain well manned because if they not . .  :(
  15. Ramillies, one of the worst things to happen to the Scots Infantry was the loss of their TA battalions - this effectively stripped the army out of the community in a significant number of places North of the border.

    I say this based on my experience in the RRTT team for both 3BW as was and the 51st Highland Regt as now is and with dealings with 1 BW RRTT team over a 2 year period.  I have also worked on launching the Army's latest careers web sites for the Regular Army and the TA.

    As you correctly mention - Scotlands population is declining and the pool is small when compared to most of England.  Though there is a desire still to soldier and retain the Scottish regiments - it would be a bitter shame to loose any more and i would guess cause even more disinterest in the Army.  

    From my own interviews with potential recruits in the NE and Inverness most wanted to be Gordon Highlanders or Queens Own, but as those options no longer existed they didn't want to soldier at all - a very sad state of affairs.  This i think is the crux of the recruiting problem in Scotland - most recruits want to join their local / family regiment - when it is amalgamated or disbanded they loose interest.

    However, recruitment is not helped by the lack of recruiting offices or foot print on the ground.  There is also the problem of apathy and the Army's image as a whole the UK civ pop.

    Lots of small and big issues, but i believe that the Army is making the effort to address this.