Sink or swim time for UK

#1
Conservative Party conference: it's sink or swim for Britain, warns David Cameron - Telegraph

I have read in a few places now that Europe has to move away from the massive social welfare model. In short Europe needs to become competitive against the rest of the world.

I certainly get the feeling that Britain needs to become competitive - a lot of benefits are given out to people and there is a huge social safety net system in place as well; all of things we can not afford.

MODS - Int Cell or Finance threads?
 
#3
Conservative Party conference: it's sink or swim for Britain, warns David Cameron - Telegraph

I have read in a few places now that Europe has to move away from the massive social welfare model. In short Europe needs to become competitive against the rest of the world.

I certainly get the feeling that Britain needs to become competitive - a lot of benefits are given out to people and there is a huge social safety net system in place as well; all of things we can not afford.

MODS - Int Cell or Finance threads?
So what happens to the people currently on benefits then? And more to the point, what stops them going out and taking what they want if their benefits are chopped?

You may remember a bit of a dust-up last year when scrotes realised that if enough of them break the law at the same time, there's **** all the police can do about it.
 
#4
More to the point, if we look to the nations that have manufacturing and service economies but don't have social security built into them the common factor is that people don't spend anything they don't absolutely need to because they're too petrified of losing work or falling ill. That makes their economies massively dependent on external markets and extremely vulnerable to overseas competition and currency fluctuations.

Simply put, a market needs customers and doesn't care where their money comes from.
 
#5
In asnswer to PFs post, the money for a lavish welfare system is simply not there, a basic system maybe. It is therefore not a question of if the system will stop or change dramatically, merely when. There are therefore going to be a lot of unhappy people, who might well get violent. What happens then? Our dearly beloved Lords and Masters should have thought of that one a long time ago, the evidence would indicate that they haven't. see the following for details: POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG
 
#6
Conservative Party conference: it's sink or swim for Britain, warns David Cameron - Telegraph

I have read in a few places now that Europe has to move away from the massive social welfare model. In short Europe needs to become competitive against the rest of the world.

I certainly get the feeling that Britain needs to become competitive - a lot of benefits are given out to people and there is a huge social safety net system in place as well; all of things we can not afford.

MODS - Int Cell or Finance threads?


Well, all well and good slashing welfare, but who's making up the losses to the economy in spending?

People on welfare are by and large not discretionary spenders, they spend the lot in the local economy.

It's no good telling Mr Patel as he boards up his corner shop its for the good of the economy.
 
#7
It's no good telling Mr Patel as he boards up his corner shop its for the good of the economy.
Successful ventures thrive and grow, others fail and go under. The human cost of failure is unfortunate, but short of subsidising every failing business in the UK at the expense of the more successful there's not much that can be done about it.
 
#8
So what happens to the people currently on benefits then? And more to the point, what stops them going out and taking what they want if their benefits are chopped?

You may remember a bit of a dust-up last year when scrotes realised that if enough of them break the law at the same time, there's **** all the police can do about it.
People currently on benefits will have to manage on less. We can't afford the type of redistributive socialism that allows people to live far beyond their means.

Dishing out mansions in Westminster, free Mercedes cars, free Sky TV and unlimited child benefit to the worthy while homeless men and women freeze to death on the streets demonstrates just how broken our welfare system is. The redistribution needs to be redistributed.

Regarding the scrotes, I note the total absence of any "uprisings" this summer. I think the lack of extreme shopping is largely due to the hefty jail sentences handed down to all concerned. Four years for sending a text message - you won't get many people trying that again.

In addition, the riots were a wake up call for the Met. They're legally obliged to pay for damage caused during a riot. Next time police on the front line ask to deploy baton rounds I don't think the commissioner will be worrying about diversity impact statements. I hear the Met are in the market for a couple of water cannon too.
 
#10
Typical weak governance, blame the governed for the problems!
Welllll....since enough of the governed voted for the last bunch of f**kwits who ran up an £163 BILLION overspend trying to bribe the governed enough to keep them in power at least 3 times.........

Who can you blame ? The f**kwit New Labour morons who thought they could keep spending the next 5 decades worth of tax revenue or the f**kwits who kept believing them ?
 
#11
Successful ventures thrive and grow, others fail and go under. The human cost of failure is unfortunate, but short of subsidising every failing business in the UK at the expense of the more successful there's not much that can be done about it.
Not so, Mr Patels shop is the only one open on the shithole estate. He goes under not through some economic failing on his part.
Now the estate has no shops and further social decay sets in. Who pays the extra costs incured?
 
#12
I have read in a few places now that Europe has to move away from the massive social welfare model. In short Europe needs to become competitive against the rest of the world.

I certainly get the feeling that Britain needs to become competitive - a lot of benefits are given out to people and there is a huge social safety net system in place as well; all of things we can not afford.
This all sounds very good but is baseless and quite frankly, wrong.

How does cutting benefits enhance competitiveness?
Competitiveness comes from innovation, infrastructure, a well educated work force, and cost effectiveness.

You don't become more competitive by punishing unlucky and/or poor people for being unlucky and/or poor, letting parts of the country fall into extreme poverty isn't going to save the economy.
Besides, corporations don't pay the benefits bill, so it would have no effect on them anyway. Before you say lower taxation I would like to remind you that the UK already has a very low corporation tax rate.

It's not about strong welfare vs no welfare, it's about proper management.

Germany, the biggest economy in Europe, and the one without which the EU and the Euro would've gone tits up by now, is a welfare state. Get your head around that, eh?
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Not so, Mr Patels shop is the only one open on the shithole estate. He goes under not through some economic failing on his part.
Now the estate has no shops and further social decay sets in. Who pays the extra costs incured?
Alternatively, the estate-dwellers forgo Jermy Kyle and the pizza drop, take one of the many jobs created in the UK during the last decade but largely filled by more motivated immigrants, and begin the long and drawn out process of building a better life for them and their families. This scenario doesn't help Mr Patel because, at this point, Sainsbury's and Tesco rock up to crush him, but socially it is more useful than perpetuating an expensive breeding programme for unmotivated morons wallowing around in a benefits money pit.
 
#14
Conservative Party conference: it's sink or swim for Britain, warns David Cameron - Telegraph

I have read in a few places now that Europe has to move away from the massive social welfare model. In short Europe needs to become competitive against the rest of the world.

I certainly get the feeling that Britain needs to become competitive - a lot of benefits are given out to people and there is a huge social safety net system in place as well; all of things we can not afford.

MODS - Int Cell or Finance threads?
I think what you say is absolute crap !!!.You and people like you woulld be the first to want if it came home to you .Yes i agree there are lots who are fiddling benefits and should be stopped BUT there are plenty incuding ex srving men and women who need the countries help .Yes and a lot more besides.People who are dying and been told to work that cant be right .We have (had )the finest health service in the world which countries lik the usa a extremely jelous of shame it is been systameticaly been destroyed by these prats
 
#15
Alternatively, the estate-dwellers forgo Jermy Kyle and the pizza drop, take one of the many jobs created in the UK during the last decade but largely filled by more motivated immigrants, and begin the long and drawn out process of building a better life for them and their families. This scenario doesn't help Mr Patel because, at this point, Sainsbury's and Tesco rock up to crush him, but socially it is more useful than perpetuating an expensive breeding programme for unmotivated morons wallowing around in a benefits money pit.


But the estate dwellers are not the fiscal problem with welfare spending…

here is the real Geriatric elephant in the corner of the economy room…

 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
(snip)

Germany, the biggest economy in Europe, and the one without which the EU and the Euro would've gone tits up by now, is a welfare state. Get your head around that, eh?
The German economy is sustained largely by cranking the European economy as a whole in a form of economic colonialism - it's why, though the Germans want austerity for the PIIGS, they do not want the Euro to collapse. German welfare is essentially subsidised by the likes of Greece and Italy keeping German exports competitive, at what price to themselves we now know. You can't build a strong economy on the Public Sector - the only people to believe otherwise were the old Soviet leaders and John Prescott - and ultimately, not matter how much people obfuscate, economic strength ultimately depends on export performance.
 
#17
We're all in it together, until they find an excuse to take advantage.

Wow £163 billion! That's nearly 3 years tax avoidance, or about a third of what we had to find to bail out the banks.
 
#18
This all sounds very good but is baseless and quite frankly, wrong.

How does cutting benefits enhance competitiveness?
Competitiveness comes from innovation, infrastructure, a well educated work force, and cost effectiveness.
You said it in one. COST EFFECTIVENESS. The big drag on any business is the cost of doing business in a country. If the combination of costs imposed by Government thro direct and indirect means is too high, then the cost of it's finished product is going to be high. If the Government has a high taxation rate to pay for high social welfare then the direct taxes on a business and it's staff would be high and the indirect taxes on the business, it's suppliers and it's staff would be high. Staff costs would also be high.

I'd point out that some of the Scandavinan countries have been cutting theirt high value Social welfare systems as the cost of them is becoming unsustainable, even after decades of high tax rates.

I'd also point out the EU citizens taking advantage of the freedom of movement around Europe also have a duty to be self supporting and not become a burden on the social welfare systems of their host country for at least the first 3 months.
 
#19
Sorry to p1ss on your firework P_G, but even in Germany the message is slowly but surely sinking in that the welfare state is in severe danger. The much vaunted pension system cannot possibly go on in its original form, the increasingly older population at the top together with a lack of children and young adults at the bottom end quite simply spells endex. The ever increasing bill for social services and welfare means that lots if not most authorities are either broke or very near it. And there's more misery en route the very low levels of pay, quite often even less than welfare rates, means that in the future many people will have a pension that will leave them in poverty, and unemployment is unthinkable under these circumstances, but never the less a real posibility.
 
#20
Well, all well and good slashing welfare, but who's making up the losses to the economy in spending?

People on welfare are by and large not discretionary spenders, they spend the lot in the local economy.

It's no good telling Mr Patel as he boards up his corner shop its for the good of the economy.
Mr Patel is free to do what he or his forebears did, move to a country with a better economy and set up shop there.

It's called a mobile worldwide economy.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
R Infantry 20
B Infantry 46
PartTimePongo Current Affairs, News and Analysis 17

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top