Single Officers living out.

#1
Am a single officer (Capt) fed up with living in the mess due to PAYD, Nig's etc. What allowances exist for those wishing to live out but aren't automatically entitled to a Pad? Appreciated that RHQ might be a more suitable forum but am hoping for some advice from those who have done similar. Much obliged.
 
#2
Will depend on your attitude and how senior you are as a Capt. I wished to do the same while at 22RA but was refused permission to live in the local village. There is almost zero chance of you being provided with accommodation, even if one is vacant.

The best you can hope for is permission to rent an appartment of your own. A Wnaker of a PMC or Adjt will try and make you still pay full messing using the cr@p line "you chose to move out..."

Good luck.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#3
'Find a girl, settle down,
If you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am old, but I’m happy' :wink:
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#5
...discuss that with my shrink.

(sorry for my frivolity Napolean, but you could do worse than find a lass, that is unless you bat for t'other side :twisted: )
 
#6
You get your food and accn back, but you should still probably have to pay extra messing, as you are technically still a 'singlie'.

Right or wrong - that's the way it is.

And for what it's worth, subalterns should live in the Mess, else how will the 'Nigs' learn what is expected of them? ;)
 
#7
A couple of years in the Mess will make you appreciate real life outside. I would also suggest making do with where you are and then buying rather than renting. It hurts up front to save for the deposit, but the monthly payments are probably less than rent. The earlier you get property, the better off you are. Nothing more satisfying than doing something to your own place. Getting property is essential. If you then have to move for Service reasons, MoD will cover selling & buying costs up to 5K - not shabby to maintain a lifestyle. Or if you go overseas, rent it out & payments covered.
If you are gagging to get out, you can apply to the DHE for a surplus quarter - if there are any where you are. Don't forget tho - if you deploy and you're renting a place, you still pay regardless.
 
#8
If you get the OK to live out you could always see if there are surplus quarters - the odds of a)There being any aval and b)Getting permission to occupy one, are probably worse than Ian Paisley becoming the Pope but there's no harm in trying.

I also think that if you are allowed to live out all singlie mess subs will stop.

But then again I may be wrong 8O
 
#9
Darth_Doctrinus said:
And for what it's worth, subalterns should live in the Mess, else how will the 'Nigs' learn what is expected of them? ;)
No. Not any more. PAYD has devalued the value of living in the mess. Living out should just be another option, albeit one where you shouldn't expect a quarter ahead of marrieds or the newly-endorsed confused.
 
#10
Victorian_Captain said:
Darth_Doctrinus said:
And for what it's worth, subalterns should live in the Mess, else how will the 'Nigs' learn what is expected of them? ;)
No. Not any more. PAYD has devalued the value of living in the mess. Living out should just be another option, albeit one where you shouldn't expect a quarter ahead of marrieds or the newly-endorsed confused.
Must disagree old boy - the Mess is where teeth are cut (and the odd eyebrow). I think it should be compulsory to spend the first two years of one's career (at least) as a LIM.
 
#11
The simple answer to your question is; there are no allowances available for a single officer who is provided with military accommodation but chooses not to use it. In order to stop paying Accommodation Charges you will need your Commanding Officer's permission to live out and then it will be up to you to cover your housing, food, utilities and travel to work costs. I would think the chances of a single officer getting a surplus MQ to be very slim, many ex married officers with child visitation rights are also hoping for an MQ. Also there would be stringent rules on who could live in the MQ, so you would not be allowed to install your latest squeeze for comfort purposes.

I would be interested to hear your experiences with PAYD, I have always understood that the introduction of the scheme was what all singlies were waiting for.
 
#12
Cheers for the advice. As I much suspected there isn't really much scope for a pad off the Army's flick. Shame. Can't believe that as a Capt of 3 and a bit years I would still have to seek either the CO's or PMC's permission. Can understand it if a Nig was to live out but a mid-range Capt?? Have heard about Adjt/Ops being offered a pad and certainly OCs. I also know of Crabs that have lived-out as singlies. BTW Paymaster PAYD has yet to affect the Mess I am currently at but colleagues of mine are having some dreadful experiences such as having to individually declare every slice of bread and portion of butter at tea and toast! Compound this with an overall decrease in the standard of food and no provision of cooking facilities PAYD is proving to be a bit of a farce.

On another subject has anyone found the nigs coming through are a lot more chippy than in 'my day'? No maners in the mess etc. Have encountered some who refuse to get ming-monged on their dining in! Cue harumphing and rustling of the Telegraph!
 
#13
napoleon_dynamite said:
Cheers for the advice. As I much suspected there isn't really much scope for a pad off the Army's flick. Shame. Can't believe that as a Capt of 3 and a bit years I would still have to seek either the CO's or PMC's permission. Can understand it if a Nig was to live out but a mid-range Capt?? Have heard about Adjt/Ops being offered a pad and certainly OCs. I also know of Crabs that have lived-out as singlies. BTW Paymaster PAYD has yet to affect the Mess I am currently at but colleagues of mine are having some dreadful experiences such as having to individually declare every slice of bread and portion of butter at tea and toast! Compound this with an overall decrease in the standard of food and no provision of cooking facilities PAYD is proving to be a bit of a farce.

On another subject has anyone found the nigs coming through are a lot more chippy than in 'my day'? No maners in the mess etc. Have encountered some who refuse to get ming-monged on their dining in! Cue harumphing and rustling of the Telegraph!
What the fcuk is a nig? And you were one once too :p
 
#14
napoleon_dynamite said:
On another subject has anyone found the nigs coming through are a lot more chippy than in 'my day'? No maners in the mess etc. Have encountered some who refuse to get ming-monged on their dining in! Cue harumphing and rustling of the Telegraph!
Have you considered your role as a living in member to advise them of the behaviour that is expected of them? Or is that someone else's problem?
 
#15
CaptainBlackadder said:
What the fcuk is a nig? And you were one once too :p
Is this a rhetorical question? You seem to know judging by your second sentence...
 
#16
Victorian_Captain said:
CaptainBlackadder said:
What the fcuk is a nig? And you were one once too :p
Is this a rhetorical question? You seem to know judging by your second sentence...
Is that a waah? I was merely pointing out his rudeness in using the term "nig".
 
#17
napoleon_dynamite said:
Cheers for the advice. As I much suspected there isn't really much scope for a pad off the Army's flick. Shame. Can't believe that as a Capt of 3 and a bit years I would still have to seek either the CO's or PMC's permission. Can understand it if a Nig was to live out but a mid-range Capt?? Have heard about Adjt/Ops being offered a pad and certainly OCs. I also know of Crabs that have lived-out as singlies. BTW Paymaster PAYD has yet to affect the Mess I am currently at but colleagues of mine are having some dreadful experiences such as having to individually declare every slice of bread and portion of butter at tea and toast! Compound this with an overall decrease in the standard of food and no provision of cooking facilities PAYD is proving to be a bit of a farce.

On another subject has anyone found the nigs coming through are a lot more chippy than in 'my day'? No maners in the mess etc. Have encountered some who refuse to get ming-monged on their dining in! Cue harumphing and rustling of the Telegraph!
I'm pretty stuck in the mud about living in the Mess. I personally believe that if you are serving at Regt Duty and you are not married or living with partner locally (which you should seek your CO's permission - only very good reason would stop him saying no), then you should live in the Mess (bar LEs/OCs). It is your responsiblity to educate/grip/bond/host the younger/newer members of the Mess. If all 'mid ranking Capts' went AWOL from the Mess, there would be no one left to do the above. Unfortunately we not only have a duty to our soldiers but that of the Mess too. We always harp on about how important it is to have one, and what it stands for, so let us not forget it and desert it at the earliset opportunity. Wait for your E posting and then cut loose - a lot more fun, I'm ther now.
 
#18
I'm pretty stuck in the mud about living in the Mess. I personally believe that if you are serving at Regt Duty and you are not married or living with partner locally (which you should seek your CO's permission - only very good reason would stop him saying no), then you should live in the Mess (bar LEs/OCs). It is your responsiblity to educate/grip/bond/host the younger/newer members of the Mess. If all 'mid ranking Capts' went AWOL from the Mess, there would be no one left to do the above. Unfortunately we not only have a duty to our soldiers but that of the Mess too. We always harp on about how important it is to have one, and what it stands for, so let us not forget it and desert it at the earliset opportunity. Wait for your E posting and then cut loose - a lot more fun, I'm ther now.
 
#19
Pips said:
I'm pretty stuck in the mud about living in the Mess. I personally believe that if you are serving at Regt Duty and you are not married or living with partner locally (which you should seek your CO's permission - only very good reason would stop him saying no), then you should live in the Mess (bar LEs/OCs). It is your responsiblity to educate/grip/bond/host the younger/newer members of the Mess. If all 'mid ranking Capts' went AWOL from the Mess, there would be no one left to do the above. Unfortunately we not only have a duty to our soldiers but that of the Mess too. We always harp on about how important it is to have one, and what it stands for, so let us not forget it and desert it at the earliset opportunity. Wait for your E posting and then cut loose - a lot more fun, I'm ther now.
Pips old boy, I agree with you with regards to Capts educating the nig officers (Blackadder I am unapologetic re. your comment that it is 'rude'!) and a Regtl Mess is to be preserved. My original point is that PAYD is eroding the 'tradition' of the Mess. Sub-standard accomodation can be put up with but well-below average food, civvy contractors/managers who don't give a monkeys about anything less profit margins, and a complete lack of cooking facilities have precipitated this desire to live out.

As for the chippyness of the nig officers, I wholeheatrtedly agree that it is precisely those senior LIM's duty to 'edjumacate' them into the ways of the Mess. After all, we have all been through exactly the same process. It is when these YO's decide that their uni/pre-Army/sandhurst experience exempts them from the traditions of the Mess such as excusing themselves from supper because they cannot be bothered wearing a suit, refusing to drink on their dining in/any LIM functions, debriefing other officers on the finer points of tactics without having attended their own troopies course etc. despite the 'advice' of the senior LIM's. I would like to state however that these nigs are very much in the minority but they are getting through nonetheless.

To be honest I think that in the finest traditions of the Officers' Mess I will whinge/harumph about it and end up doing precisely nothing about it!
 
#20
Though not from your Army, if I may chip in.

The Indian Army traditions and customs are from the British Army and we maintain them rather religiously.

In our Army we have officers who have come through the Army Cadet College (bright rankers who are selected through a written exam and a Service Selection Board competition). Some of them are married. Yet, till the age of 25, one is not entitled to family accomodation, be he married or otherwise. This is to ensure that there is camaraderie built up which is essential for building the regimental spirit by living together and in the Officer Mess complex. It has also paid us well thus in the many wars and skirmishes we have fought.

There is no concept of allowing anyone who is not entitled married accomodation (including the age bar) to "live out" and there is no chance of anyone being allowed to "live in with a partner (female ofcourse!)" within the government accomodation or in the town.

Therefore, if I have understood correctly, the British Army "living out" concept is interesting.

In my Army, we are not allowed to spend our leave in the station since there is always the possibility of interfering with one's command and thus not allowing the officiating incumbent to "grow" as also being called in by the CO to sort out problems etc.

The concept is that the leave should be hassle free so that one is fresh to restart the regimen on return.

This, too, is a legacy of the British Indian Army.

BTW what is a nig?
 

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