Simple way to stop US Armed Forces killing Brits

#1
Dont go to war with them.

We have been their steadfast ally for long enough now; alongside them when most of the world - and most of the UK population - do not agree with their aims.

By siding with them we stop them looking like unilateral bullies in the eyes of the world, yet the unlawful killing of L/CoH Matty Hull sees them turn their backs on the UK.

If they cannot let their service personnel face lawful charges in the UK, if they will not disclose essential evidence ( cockpit footage ) and if it sees what looks like a whitewash then let Matty Hull be the last Brit killed by the US Armed Forces.

Let them get on without us.
 
#2
BB

Ain't going to happen - for good or bad we have chosen for the last 10 yrs to suck it up and whilst Labour remain in power, I think it will continue.

If we get a new party in, there is an opportunity to change. But I'm not holding out much hope as the Conservatives were licking butt even before Labour got in.

Basically, I think we are fcuked. :plotting:
 
#3
I think we should strengthen our ties with our biggest economic supporter and work out a sensible global defence policy with them. They might also let us have some of those shiney Chengdu J - 13 fighters. You didn't think I meant america did you?
 
#4
India and China are on the way up.

The US is going doooown.

China, I think, is a step too far for our political masters, but to start doing more with India seems......prudent, wouldn't you say?
 
#5
I dunno, Cheapseats. An authoritarian regime which controls every aspect of its citizens' lives, which disregards the international community, and where the ruling elite dominate public life for their own personal enriuchment?

Doesn't sound like too far a step when it's put that way...

I would agree with the original post. We haven't got much out of the special relationship; certainly nothing worth such contempt for the lives of our soldiers. They don't need us militarily, and unless they are willing to pay far more in political terms for the fig-leaf of our support, sod 'em.
 
#6
I think we may be getting blackmailed by the US. I don't know what they've got on us. Maybe it's something juicy on Tony Blair that they threatened to reveal in the run-up to the Iraq invasion.

Could it be the underdeveloped condition of his manhood or something? Is there a maggott nestling within his Calvin Kleins?

Was he coerced into making that 45 minute Iraq WMD claim? Perhaps he had a sexual encounter with somebody other than himself (or Cherie?) - John Prescott or something. Can anyone fill in the blanks?
 
#7
The way to stop US pilots killing Brit soldiers is to spend enough on our own air power so that we don't need the redneck blighters and forbid them to come into our airspace.

But it will never happen, partly because airspace is managed centrally and partly because Gordon will never spend the money..
 
#8
Spend MoD money, training the Americans up to a level where they don't mistake CVR(T) for Zils.

Use Typhoons. We are lumbered with them now, they areno good for Air to Ground, but put one above our lads with orders to shoot anything down that attacks our boys.

To paraphrase that numbskull off SOCCOM, we'll then listen for the whining from their side of the pond.
 
#9
frenchperson said:
I think we may be getting blackmailed by the US. I don't know what they've got on us. Maybe it's something juicy on Tony Blair that they threatened to reveal in the run-up to the Iraq invasion.

Could it be the underdeveloped condition of his manhood or something? Is there a maggott nestling within his Calvin Kleins?

Was he coerced into making that 45 minute Iraq WMD claim? Perhaps he had a sexual encounter with somebody other than himself (or Cherie?) - John Prescott or something. Can anyone fill in the blanks?
Prescott and Bliar are gay lovers, hence why Prescott is DPM, so he can provide executive relief when the pressure's on! Bush knows this and is jealous of Prescott, so he threatened to 'out' Bliar unless he supported the Iraq War in the hope that he could drive a wedge between the two lovers. Tony's cronies are, in fact, all men he has had indiscreet liaisons with in the past; he has to give them high powered jobs, regardless of their incompetence, to prevent them from revealing his predilection for young boys, swarfega and gimp wear.

Suddenly it all makes sense...
 
#10
frenchperson said:
I think we may be getting blackmailed by the US. I don't know what they've got on us. Maybe it's something juicy on Tony Blair that they threatened to reveal in the run-up to the Iraq invasion.

Could it be the underdeveloped condition of his manhood or something? Is there a maggott nestling within his Calvin Kleins?

Was he coerced into making that 45 minute Iraq WMD claim? Perhaps he had a sexual encounter with somebody other than himself (or Cherie?) - John Prescott or something. Can anyone fill in the blanks?[/quote]

Oh God I think I'm going to be sick - can you imagine Disruptive Pattern Material taking one up the Marmite Machine?
 
#11
Before the Parliamentary vote in early 2003, Bush offered 3 TIMES in 1 phone call to Blair that UK forces didn't have to participate in the invasion of Iraq. On top of which Donald Rumsfeld pointed out how little it mattered to the Pentagon whether the UK forces participated or not.

So it's not the case that the US blackmailed the UK into participating. It is the case that the UK is a pathetic hanger-on, desperate to appear important on the world stage by clinging to the coat-tails of the mighty USA, whether the USA wants us to or not. More recently HMG started begging for a splendid new missile defence base to be sited in the UK rather than Poland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/martinrowson/0,,2021604,00.html

So I agree with the first post. We should stop pretending to be anything other than a medium sized European country and this means stopping going to war alongside the US.
 
#12
AndyPipkin said:
So I agree with the first post. We should stop pretending to be anything other than a medium sized European country and this means stopping going to war alongside the US.
We are more than that, so we should start acting like it.

Less of this faintly continential shrug of defeat, and time to start punching the political system until we get something with a bit of backbone.
 
#13
What short memories you all have. The US has been our steadfast friend when we most needed them: WWI & II, Cold War and Falklands. You myopic dullards take a couple of tragic accidents and brand the US as 'cowboys' and as a general threat to world peace. What would you prefer...Euro Corps? Give me strength. Your 'Red-top' inspired rants are ill-informed. I suggest get your heads into a couple of history books. Perhaps, once you've taken your collective heads for a sh1t, you could focus your energies on bringing together STANAG 3797 and the US JCAS MOA together in order to harmonize CAS/FAC standards. I suggest this to be a far more productive endeavour than spitting venom at our friends.
 
#14
The dignity displayed by L/CoH Matty Hull’s widow should be an example for us all. Our response should be as cool and dignified as his widows. Of all the people in the world to have a reason to go off on one she had and chose to take the moral high ground. So instead of linking Matty Hulls death with all the evil that America has perpetrated how about seeing it for what it was. A rare tragedy. Obviously training issues need to be raised for the Americans sake as well as ours. But lets face it, of the all the operations we have been on with the Americans from Op Granby onwards, a staggeringly small number of men have been killed at all. And of those few deaths the seemingly gross amount of friendly fire deaths seems stark. I personally think American military doctrine sucks, however, it was their doctrine which defeated Iraq in days and weeks, and also breeds their A10 pilots.
Matty Hull was a professional and was doing what he wanted to do. Don’t hijack his memory.
 
#15
flipflop said:
What short memories you all have. The US has been our steadfast friend when we most needed them: WWI & II, Cold War and Falklands. You myopic dullards take a couple of tragic accidents and brand the US as 'cowboys' and as a general threat to world peace. What would you prefer...Euro Corps? Give me strength. Your 'Red-top' inspired rants are ill-informed. I suggest get your heads into a couple of history books. Perhaps, once you've taken your collective heads for a sh1t, you could focus your energies on bringing together STANAG 3797 and the US JCAS MOA together in order to harmonize CAS/FAC standards. I suggest this to be a far more productive endeavour than spitting venom at our friends.
Flipflop, whilst I agree completely with your points, there is one issue that never seems to get raised in these discussions. There is one common factor that seems to link the majority of these blue on blue incidents: namely the US Air National Guard.

Having met some of these gents, they do seem to contain a high proportion of crop dusting cowboy maniacs. It seems to me that the best way to stop these things happening would be for the ANG to spend a bit more time and money training their pilots. Better skills and drills would probably go a long way towards preventing these tragedies from occuring.
 
#16
flipflop said:
What short memories you all have. The US has been our steadfast friend when we most needed them: WWI & II, Cold War and Falklands. You myopic dullards take a couple of tragic accidents and brand the US as 'cowboys' and as a general threat to world peace. What would you prefer...Euro Corps? Give me strength. Your 'Red-top' inspired rants are ill-informed. I suggest get your heads into a couple of history books. Perhaps, once you've taken your collective heads for a sh1t, you could focus your energies on bringing together STANAG 3797 and the US JCAS MOA together in order to harmonize CAS/FAC standards. I suggest this to be a far more productive endeavour than spitting venom at our friends.
Friends who put the careers of their men before the lives of their allies. The post about CAS/FAC standardisation falls apart when some bloke strapped to an aircraft cannot be bothered to get a visual ID, decides that red marker panels are missile racks ( eh? ) and launches anyway.

Wake up; they dont need us, do we really need them?
 
#18
As I understand it the National Guard pilots involved in the ghastly mistaken attack on L/CoH Hull's unit had no previous operational experience. I'd be happy to be corrected on that particular point.

It's also unclear as to whether they followed the RoE. Reading the cockpit tape transcript makes it clear that they did not accurately identify the types of target they observed, nor its actual location. Further, they did not wait for artillery location of the target before launching their first attack. This in spite of the fact that (as the transmission tape shows) it had been requested. So, a series of hasty and ill-considered actions led to disaster.

This incident has been portrayed in some quarters as taking place in the fog of war. It's as well to recall that the weather conditions were fine, there was no threat of anti-aircraft activity, there was no real urgency to 'take out' a perceived direct threat on the ground or to the aircraft. The NG pilots are said by many Americans to be very highly trained and professional officers, not cowboys.

It is also said that British commanders on the ground have chosen not to comment - although I have no confirmation either way.

I'd like to see a much closer scrutiny of the sequence of events.

Sadly, and as we all know, this will do nothing to assuage Mrs Hull's grief. Although she herself made a plea to the highest American authorities for full information to be given to her and the Coroner, that request was spurned.

We should draw our own conclusions.
 

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