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Simon Mann in the poo

#1
Oh dear. Apparently, Simon Mann is to be extradited to Equatorial Guinea from Zimbabwe for his coup adventures a few years back. What's the betting that we will hear precisely fukc all from the FCO about Mr Mann's human rights and the possibility that he will be tortured and murdered by that nasty little regime?

Silly me, I forget. He's white, Christian and NOT a convicted terrorist.

I wonder if Mrs Blair would be willing to do a bit of pro bono work on his behalf?

Silly me, I forgot again. He's white, Christian and NOT a convicted terrorist.
 
#2
Any ideas whats happening to the rest of the south african package holiday crew that went with him? ahhh the crazy japes of those old etonians.
 
#3
Was Simon Mann part of a coup plot against the Government of Equitorial Guinea or not?

I very much doubt FCO will be doing "F**k all. Just because you don't see a report in the papers doesn't mean people aren't working on this case.

Ironically , being White and Christian is probably one of the reasons Mr. Mann is still alive. I wouldn't like to fancy his chances of not having a terminal accident in chokey, if he had been a Black Zimbabwean.

Mann is now a South African citizen isn't he? Didn't South Africa drop charges against him too? I'm sure FCO and other agencies remain very interested in Mr. Mann's welfare.

Being a 'White Christian' has the square root of bugger all to do with his plight.
 
#4
That he was involved in coup planning was one of the charges laid against him. However, his prosecution in Zimbabwe was on charges of immigration offences, gun running etc. etc.

The coup plot was never admitted, nor did Zimbabwe prosecute Mann for it.
 
#5
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=305287&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/

In his argument against the extradition by the government of Equatorial Guinea, Simon Mann said he cannot go to Equatorial Guinea because the authorities there will not spare his life.

His appearance in court on Thursday took place at the Chikurubi Maximum Security Prison, 20km from Harare, where the Briton has been held since his arrest at Harare International Airport in March 2004.

It was the first court appearance by the former SAS officer since his trial in 2004 on charges of illegally purchasing firearms to topple the government of President Teodoro Obiang Nguema.

On Thursday, state prosecutor Joseph Jagada said Malabo had made some undertakings with the government of Zimbabwe to have an independent judge selected by members of the African Union preside over the trial of Mann.

According to the undertakings, the death penalty will not apply in the event of conviction, the radio said
.

So it appears people are working to stop Simon being executed. I find it hard to believe the Government of Bob the B*stard would be working hard to stop that , so I can only assume the SA Government and the FCO are working to ensure that some sort of fair trial takes place in the first instance.
 
#6
The_Hussar said:
Any ideas whats happening to the rest of the south african package holiday crew that went with him?
Most of them were acquitted, sadly, Simon is not a well man, and the best efforts of the FCO may not lead to his release before ill health sees him off.
 
#7
PartTimePongo said:
Was Simon Mann part of a coup plot against the Government of Equitorial Guinea or not?

I very much doubt FCO will be doing "F**k all. Just because you don't see a report in the papers doesn't mean people aren't working on this case.

Ironically , being White and Christian is probably one of the reasons Mr. Mann is still alive. I wouldn't like to fancy his chances of not having a terminal accident in chokey, if he had been a Black Zimbabwean.

Mann is now a South African citizen isn't he? Didn't South Africa drop charges against him too? I'm sure FCO and other agencies remain very interested in Mr. Mann's welfare.

Being a 'White Christian' has the square root of bugger all to do with his plight.
Is this the same FCO that did such a sterling job of looking after the interests of British citizens who were jailed on false murder charges, tortured and threatened with execution in Saudi Arabia a few years back? Is this the same FCO that was also publicly criticised by several of its own diplomats for doing precisely fukc all to intervene in their plight?

I believe that the sole interest the FCO has in Mr Mann's plight is whether he is able to prove that agencies of the British Government had prior warning of the coup plans and were more than happy to see it go ahead.

My point here, is that the FCO have been vocal in taking the Bush Administration to task about the fate of British Citizens (and at least two who weren't British Citizens but who had been given indefinite leave to remain) who have been inarcerated in Guantanamo Bay.

They were also extremely vocal about criticizing the Pakistan Government who had arrested a British-born Muslim (he had renounced his British citizenship) and were treating him badly to get confessions about his terrorist activities including accusations that he was actively plotting to carry out terrorist attacks in the UK.

In both cases, there has been a desire to prove the FCOs 'right-on' credentials to Muslim communities in the UK. The one common denominator in the Saudi case and Simon Mann's case is that all the prisoners were white and Christian and there has been next to no diplomatic outrage on the scale of the Guantanamo Bay and Pakistan cases. Where are the pro bono lawyers for Mann? They had a field day honking on about human rights for prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. I ask again, is it because he is white and Christian and his plight is not quite as Gucci and politically correct as headlines about poor, demonised Muslims?
 
#8
I think you misunderstand what exactly it is the FCO does.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1761299.stm

What Simon Mann needs is ministerial intervention. Though I think they would find it hard to intervene as...

1. He's been convicted as a South African Citizen. South Africa have already dropped charges against him however. Ranting about the FCO and Muslims is irrelevant. He allegedley entered Zimbabwe on his South African passport

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3645014.stm

2. He pleaded guilty to the charge of trying to illegally purchase firearms, Zimbabwe banged him up for it. Concurrent with that , his alleged associates were being entertained at the pleasure of the EG Government.

The move behind the scenes to get him an AU Judge is extraordinary in itself. It's not the same as Anne Boleyn being helped by her cousin, who on receiving her plea for help, thoughtfully provided the best swordsman in France to do the job, as opposed to some cack-handed British axeman.

It has already been stated that should he be found guilty , he's not going to be executed.

As he is a South African Citizen as well, surely it also falls to Dr. Zuma to talk to the EG Government about not having a trial , and returning Simon to SA?

Mark Thatcher I believe , remains a British subject, and was bailed to London after being charged in South Africa. Do you think the FCO had no involvement there?

From Wikipedia - Only because I can't be arrsed to look for the nitty-gritty of Thatcher's alleged involvement in this alleged plot

On 24 November 2004, the Cape Town High Court upheld a subpoena from the South African Justice Ministry that required him to answer under oath questions from Equatorial Guinean authorities regarding the alleged coup attempt. He was due to face questioning on 25 November 2004, regarding offences under the South African Foreign Military Assistance Act; however, these proceedings were later postponed until 8 April 2005. Ultimately, following a process of plea bargaining, Thatcher pleaded guilty to negligence in investing in an aircraft "without taking proper investigations into what it would be used for" . He was fined three million rand (approximately $500,000 USD) and received a four-year suspended jail sentence.
C4 News tonight report that "A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "We are looking into those reports and we are in contact with the Zimbabwean authorities."

So the FCO is involved and active.


Edited to get more information in.
 
#9
Lots of talk about legal niceities and expressions of fair play. End of the day I reckon he is well and truly out of the frying pan and into the fire. Don't know about modern day mercs. but a dirty and undistinguished death was what most of the old guys expected if the dice went wrong way up.
 
#10
The_Hussar said:
Any ideas whats happening to the rest of the south african package holiday crew that went with him? ahhh the crazy japes of those old etonians.
Nick du Toit was tortured into confessing to planning a coup on state television in Equatorial Guinea three days after his capture in 2004. He was sentenced to 34 years imprisonment in Black Beach prison and has been confined to his cell 24 hours a day ever since. They don't mess around with niceties.

President Obiang is hardly likely to give Simon any better treatment. Whatever the FCO or anyone else say about their condition or sentancing, Obiang isn't going to suddenly turn the other cheek and let them go home with a bag of smarties.
 
#12
RABC said:
Why should we care about him ??

Is he a British Citizen ?
Was that a rhetorical question?
Generally speaking, PMCs like Sandline, and individuals like Simon, operate with the tacit approval of the UK Government. Their operations are usually conducted as a continuance of our foreign policy, albeit of a shadowy and deniable nature.
 
#13
Would be a nice little earner to spring him. I often plan this while lying awake at night. Probably easy in both countries but easier in Zim because of the hatred of the regime.

On other notes. Once a British Citizen, always a British Citizen. The White Christian non terrorist argument holds and the FCO are a bunch of cnuts. We all know that.
 
#14
It was on the news last night that they were going to release him on the 11th May and then this little gem of a transfer to Guinea came up, the reporter they were chatting to said it stank of a stitch up with 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' going on behind the scenes. Poor bloke must be absolutely gutted.
 
#15
sandmanfez said:
Generally speaking, PMCs like Sandline, and individuals like Simon, operate with the tacit approval of the UK Government. Their operations are usually conducted as a continuance of our foreign policy, albeit of a shadowy and deniable nature.
And the key word is deniable. Mercenaries know the risks they take, willingly accept them and get well paid for doing so.

Volenti non fit injuria (to a willing person, no injury is done).
 
#16
Chinggis said:
sandmanfez said:
Generally speaking, PMCs like Sandline, and individuals like Simon, operate with the tacit approval of the UK Government. Their operations are usually conducted as a continuance of our foreign policy, albeit of a shadowy and deniable nature.
And the key word is deniable. Mercenaries know the risks they take, willingly accept them and get well paid for doing so.

Volenti non fit injuria (to a willing person, no injury is done).
All this is turdo. He's a brit and we should look after him when he is incarcerated in a shitehole like Zim. So what if he knew the risks - it's immaterial. He should be sprung.
 
#17
jack-daniels said:
It was on the news last night that they were going to release him on the 11th May and then this little gem of a transfer to Guinea came up, the reporter they were chatting to said it stank of a stitch up with 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' going on behind the scenes. Poor bloke must be absolutely gutted.
It seems that this is all about oil (gosh deja vu).

The court's decision, which came despite protests from his lawyer that he could face torture and a rigged trial, was viewed by observers as an "oil for Mann" deal. President Robert Mugabe announced in March that Zimbabwe was receiving shipments of oil from the Equatorial Guinea president Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo. Since the failed coup the two tyrants have become best friends.
full story at http://www.guardian.co.uk/zimbabwe/article/0,,2076272,00.html
 
#18
Chinggis said:
sandmanfez said:
Generally speaking, PMCs like Sandline, and individuals like Simon, operate with the tacit approval of the UK Government. Their operations are usually conducted as a continuance of our foreign policy, albeit of a shadowy and deniable nature.
And the key word is deniable. Mercenaries know the risks they take, willingly accept them and get well paid for doing so.

Volenti non fit injuria (to a willing person, no injury is done).
Granted Chinggis, that doesn't mean we can't empathise with him though.
 
#19
Anyone wonder how easy it would be to pop along to zim with a few suitably armed and experienced friends and "arrange" his release? am sure there must a few rhodesians around who lend a hand, or are they too old now?

On a different tack, what the hell were they thinking using Zim as a staging post, possibly one of the daftest things ever done bar the casual stroll method of assualt favoured by british generals during the somme.

The Hussar
 
#20
sandmanfez said:
Granted Chinggis, that doesn't mean we can't empathise with him though.
I agree, I would feel pity for anyone doing time in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea, whether they're white, black, British or foreign.

Even so, he knowingly got himself into his predicament while acting as a South African citzen. Empathy doesn't change that.
 

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