Signing off whilst at Staff College

Discussion in 'Staff College and Staff Officers' started by amadeus, Feb 28, 2005.

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  1. Does anyone know how we stand once we have started staff college as regards signing off? Are we legally tied in for 3 years post Upper Sixth from the moment we start the Lower Sixth?
  2. Did you sign a 'return of service' form before you started? If you didn't they don't have a leg to stand on and you can put your papers in now. If you did it will be a bit more tricky, however, I cannot remember exactly what the rules are if you try to leave once the course starts. Hopefully someone else will be able to help.

    Best of luck
  3. Somebody tried it on my course and was asked to repay the £40,000 his course at RMCS cost.

    Don't know what happended after that. Are the Armed Forces in breach or your Human Rights? The mention of court and lawyer should speed the process up a bit.
  4. Attendance on ACSC (or AOSCs) is voluntary and attracts a Training Return of Service (Trg ROS) of 30 months. Officers are required to sign a certificate to this effect before the course.

    The rules are contained in AGAI Vol 2, Chap 38 and DCI (Joint Svc) 4/04 dated 23 Jan 04.

    Also see ANNEX A to D/MCM/233/04/05/DMS dated 1 JUN 04 or click here if you have access to DefenceNet.
  5. Thanks for that - I guess it's a case of knuckling down and maintaining a sense of ever!
  6. CGS

    CGS War Hero Moderator

    Was on the same course as Crap_Spy, last year.

    The individual concerned was told that he had to repay for the return of service from the RMCS MSc, not the ACSC year.

    I was told the same, as I had not completed an MSc prior to ACSC and therefore had not been expected to sign the ROS paper, and was reliably informed by MS(B) that if I didn't go on to RMCS to do a MSc, then I'd be OK.

    Gotta ask the question, though, why would one want to? Is the opportunity cost of not staying in for the few (?) years to the PSD really worth that?
  7. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    If you want to give it a try then just ask - in this day and age the rules may be bent or ignored. BUT i agree with CGS. You have got to the point where you have a lot of time under the belt, and banging out now, unless it is really for an offer you cant refuse, may be a bit stupid. Everyone gets pissed off at Staff College. I did, and seriously considered resigning. A few years on I am glad that I didnt. Have had some great times, some cracking tours, and seemed to have bluffed the Mil Sec into the bargain!
  9. MS_Rep

    MS_Rep RIP

  10. MS/ MCM- fair point, slip of the wrist, as it were.

    What I am getting at is he upset quite a few people last year, and that his retirement letters (and those from the AB allowing him to rescind) will be held on file. As the DCI states that the decision will be made based on the future employabilility of the officer, I am suggesting that this may be taken into consideration. If you think differently (and you are obviously in a position to know) I would be interested to know your opinion. I have heard (from a Glasgow Desk Officer) that nobody with PSC (J) will be considered. If this is true, then it slightly irritates me. If I had arsed around like many of my peers, getting mediocre reports, I would now probably be eligible for a large lump sum. I know that I have the benefit of a 'hugely rewarding' military career in front of me, but family circumstances mean I will probably bail out soon anyway.
  11. MS_Rep

    MS_Rep RIP

    Here are the criteria for being "filtered out" for Inf Redundancy, lifted straight from an APC letter:

    Prior to the IPSB certain eligible officers will be filtered out of the boarding process if they fall into any of the following categories:

    a. Lt Cols who are in command beyond the end of the redundancy window .

    b. Lt Cols who have been selected for command by No 4 Command Board but who have not yet assumed their command appointment.

    c. Lt Cols and Majs who graded above the Infantry Regular Command Line at the Infantry Command Grading Board 2004.

    d. Majs selected for the Pink List Main Board in 2005.

    e. Lt Cols graded above the promotion line for Col during the Blue List process 2005.

    f. Officers who have graduated and those who are currently attending, or have been selected to attend, advanced command and staff training and are expected to graduate, psc(j), from ACSC 5 (graduating 2003) onwards or their psc(j) earning overseas equivalent .

    g. Officers who have graduated and those who are currently attending, or have been selected to attend, advanced command and staff training and are expected to graduate, psc (Ind) or psc (Pak), from the Indian or Pakistan Staff Colleges in lieu of ACSC 5 onwards.

    Hope this assists you.

  12. It seems that unless you kick up a fuss and request redundancy then the current membership of ACSC and those who are just leaving will not be put forward for the redundancy board. Even if you submit your papers, do not be surprised if the so called intelligence test will be applied and your name withdrawn. Bummer, eh?
  13. An essential part of the decision-making process these days must be the value of major staff courses in the civilian management world. The buzzword out there is PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT and TRAINING.

    Military Cmd and Staff courses are being recognised by increasing numbers of management and other professional institutes. In the world of civilian management inordinate store is set on letters after your name - it is proof positive that you have been accepted as having an acceptable minimum standard of ability in that particular field. For example, if 2 candidates apply for a management job and one is a member of the Chartered Management Institute (CMI) and the other isn't, the MCMI letters are likely to swing it in favour of that candidate. A further example is that you are more likely to get a job in HR if you are a member if the Chartered Institute for Personnel Development (CIPD).

    Military service and experience will take you just so far in the civilian world, but without Institute membership, you place yourself at a disadvantage in the vicious competition for jobs out here. It would pay to research further before taking the big 'get out' step; contact with a Regional Resettlement Centre or the local Training and Development Section is advised - there is a huge network of ex-mil personnel who can advise you on the subject. If you don't research with the experts, you could be throwing away a valuable training opportunity that would cost an arm and a leg in civi street - training that many firms could not afford to fund in the commercial world where money is God and budgets tight.

    And the other aspect of training is that in general terms, mil training is streets ahead of the civilian world in terms of the quality of instruction and course content. After all, mil trg has developed gradually over the years and instructional staff properly trained - out here you pay vast sums for rubbish content and frustratingly indifferent 'teachers', who haven't had a days training in public speaking, use of presentation aids and teaching techniques in their lives. Any fool can set himself up in the 'Personal Development' business and earn a fortune [and there are many who do].

    The decision to bale out at any time is one to be made after a lot of research and soul searching; the decision to bale out when a major staff course is involved adds an even more vital dimension to that research.