Sick of whingers

Discussion in 'REME' started by oldagecrafty, Apr 1, 2006.

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  1. Just a quick vent about the state of moral amongst people on this forum. :evil:

    Why does there seem to be so many people posting on here who either:

    (a) Think the army has gone down hill so badly that they arent capable of carrying out their normal day to day tasks.
    (b) Think that the army should bail them out from every little drama that they have.
    (c) Think that because they now have to put in a full working week instead of 15 hours a week of work and the rest spent drinking/playing sports or on a jolly that they are being shafted.

    Now I know I am laying myself wide open for some of the usual ARRSE wit but I worked on civvy street for 14 years before I joined up ( yes long story ) and even though I have only been in 2 years I think some have forgotten all the things that the army does have to offer.

    For example:

    (a) Free medical and dental care with none of the wait.
    (b) A substantial grant towards qualifications on top of the ones provided for your chosen trade.
    (c) Oppurtunities to devolop sporting interests at both competition and instructional levels.
    (d) A pension that requiers no contribution.
    (e) The chance to travel and encounter new cultures.
    (f) Cheap food and accommadation.

    I am sure others can add to this as well.

    Now I know this all sounds very tacky and we all love to moan, but next time you are thinking that the army really is screwing you over think what a civvy company is prepared to offer.In my experiences during the last 14 years it has been 40-70 hour weeks with very little holiday or rewards apart from your weekly wage. I understand that to an extent we all work for money but I also know job satisfaction play a large part for me.

    Dont get me wrong I know that many who post on here know the workings of the army much better than me at the moment and do make valid and constructive critisims of the way things at their Wksp/Unit etc works, this is more aimed at those who bitch for the sake of it which does no-one any good and personally would bore the hell out of me if I had to work with them.

    And know this is not a moan about moaning before some bright spark pipes up. :roll:
  2. Your post is quite true well done for speaking up. Where also would you get a house that you pay little money in rent on per month. Where would you get a job with so much free travel and variety. In a lot of cases we are getting paid money for doing things that you would not do in civi street ie when you go adventure training, sporting events etc you are still getting paid. A great way to see the world and meet people. I love my job in the army.
  3. get some time in old age. im not being condescending, but when you have the same old bugbears in your job day in day out for years then thats where complaints come in, and rightly so, we give up some of our liberty when we sign that dotted line but we are not robots. I love the REME to death but this is the site where greivances can be aired and opinions vented. And the day when squaddies stop complaining, is the day when the british army ceases to be.....
    Good to hear your point of view though.
    "I may not agree with your point of view, but i will fight for your right to express it" Anon
  4. I think you are on the money old age, to many people are happy to sit back and complain but forget the good points.

    I have always said when the bad points consistently outweigh the good points it is time to walk!

  5. In response:

    a. No wait? Maybe for a visit to the med centre with a cold. Try having a back injury or something else requiring long term specialist treatment.
    b. Welcome contributions certainly, but not substantial.
    c. Yes, except when told "no LCpl/Sgt/Lt/Capt Arrse, you cannot go on that once-in-a-lifetime course that would benefit the Army because a senior officer is visiting the unit that week" (bitter? Moi? After missing out my only chance to become a fully qualified mountain guide?)
    d. B0llox! Why do you think the pay is pump? The pension is taken into account when pay is decided (tell that to hundreds of poor sods who were victims of illegal 'manning control'.
    e. And to get shot at.
    f. It has already been stated by MoD that rents will be gradually brought into line with market rates over the next few years.

    If people are going to have to slug their guts out for 40hrs plus a week, then why not do it in civvi strasse? If all the fun is being leached out of the Army by yes-men and jobsworths why should people not voice their concerns? If these are not listened to then people will vote with their feet. Oh! They are voting with their feet, which is why the Army is fcuked for manpower.

    Pretending everything is rosy is not the answer. The true situation lies somewhere between the "oh yes General sir! We are really happy here. What was that? Another tour in Iraq? Thank you sir for thinking of us so soon of our last visit there. Of course one company would love to volunteer for Afghanistan before then" and the "its all shite. Fcuking shite. Rifles don't work, equipment is shite, etc, etc"
  6. how old is your granny dread?
  7. Do you think I would give the correct response here? Veritably ancient and in fine health, and she greets you right well.
  8. ha ha, nice one. mine to. good for being 6113 years old.
  9. Like Threaders said your entitled to your oppinion mate, but i tend to disagree also, and agree with what dread wrote.

    A. i waited for 3 years for an operation on my ankle which still isnt sorted, even tho im now out the army.

    B. id hardly call £513 or whatever it is a year substantial, it is better than nothing granted. But a lot of civillian companies will put you through courses also. Fair enough they are generally trade related.

    C. Sporting interests?? i dont know what trade you are, but as a VM ill tell you how many times i went adventure training. 3 times in 13 and a bit years. once in basic, once at my first unit and i did a parachute course at Bad Lippspringe, also at my first unit. This was 1994 ish, when we had plenty of manpower and the boys could go away.

    D. Dread has covered this, the contribution is already taken into account, just because it does not show on your pay statement, trust me, its not for free.

    E. Chance to travel, yeah, fair one? Iraq 8O , Bosnia :? Afganistan 8O . Canada yes not bad, but funnily enough my last 3 med mans had minimal RnR due to undermanning and workload.

    F. Ok, fair one, but, if your in the block, it aint all a bed of roses, u hardly get a free hand? Slightly better in the mess however.

    Im guessing you may have had some sh1t jobs in civvy street, hence why u probably decided to join the army at a late age. i did it the other way, joined at 16, left at 31. i therefore saw the good times in the earlier days, we still worked hard however!! i earn more now than when i was in (ive been out a year and left as a SNCO VMA) i travel the world, funnily enough noone shoots at me, i eat well and sleep in nice hotels and drive nice hire cars.

    ok, not all are that lucky, but as Devilish Dave said, when the bad things outweigh the good, its time to leave, i did just that. and you know what i really miss? The lads, my mates, the p1ss ups. thats about it. i do also miss the sound of a CV12 also, but thats a bit pervy i know!!
  10. (a) Free medical and dental care with none of the wait. (5 years for the snip and a minor stomach op, due to point e)
    (b) A substantial grant towards qualifications on top of the ones provided for your chosen trade. (Trade quals that dont align with civvy quals, try fitting some quals in when point e applies)
    (c) Oppurtunities to devolop sporting interests at both competition and instructional levels. (Yes, on a saturday and an evening after work when point e does not apply, also when not training for point e)
    (d) A pension that requiers no contribution. (Slowly chipping away on that one, will be contributary in 10 years)
    (e) The chance to travel and encounter new cultures. (most sh*tholes of the world, still waiting for the op tour to Fuengorola)
    (f) Cheap food and accommadation. (Not any more young fella, PAYD! My quarter is now in line with civ rent charges.)

    Mine just pips yours at 6678 :)
  11. OldAge, I am with the gainsayers here too. You need to have been in a bit to appreciate how bad things have become. Of course you can produce a list of perks, but in reality as you can see the truth issomewhere between what you say and what others have experienced. Guys stay inbecause they enjoy the crack, but I believe we are being severely tested just now and if Afghanistan goes horribly wrong whilst we are still in numbers in Iraq, the whole shooting match will be very sorely tested.

    There is nothing like coffins coming off aircraft to put moral down really low!
  12. I agree - to think the Army is great after working as a civi for 14yrs, you must have had some pretty shit/bone jobs. The Army was ok, but I still think that out of the the eight years I put in, I put in about three too many.

    I've been out of the Army eight months now, and the only thing I am missing are my friends and the p1ss-ups.

    I don't miss having four room inspections in a week, just incase some fcuking Brig "might" want to have a look in my room or walk past our block.

    I don't miss getting pinged to work in the Officers/Sgt's mess as a waiter or some other shit duty just because I live in the block.

    I don't miss getting not being able to plan anything in advance. For instance, I bought my girlfriend tickets to see the Foo Fighters in Hyde Park, which is in April, for her Valentines Day present - do you think you could have booked something that far ahead? I know for a fact I haven't been able to plan anything in advance since I was 17, until I left the Army last September.

    Although I was amused when my mate told me yesterday that the sigs hangers where I used to work have had to have the floors repainted because the lads have swept them so much the paint has worn away - they were only painted about three years ago! Still, I bet the lads were laughing too - wonder if thats linked in anyway to a high sign-off rate?

    And as for free Medical and Dental. A prescription costs about 8 pounds and the dentists near me run a scheme that costs twenty quid a month and then most treatment is free.

    Although, like others have posted - we are all entitled to our own opinions.
  13. Dont get me wrong I am not saying that the army is perfect and at the end of the day I doubt any job is. I have done some very interesting jobs in my time from boat building ( 9 years ) to building carbon fibre parts for formula 1 and the wrc cars ( 5 years ) and achieved good positions in both ( sergeant or civvy equivelant ).

    I appreciate that everyone has had different experiences, for example I had a serious RTA last year leaving me with back problems as well as a fooked knee and the army has been there every step of the way to helping me recover as well as get fit again.

    Having quite a few years experience in the same job I know that the bugbears of inefficient management can wear you down but at the end of the day I still feel that the over all treatment offered by the army is far better than the private sector in terms of benefits and oppurtunities.

    Thanks for the conflicting replies though as it always keeps things interesting.

    I also agree that yes men and agreeing that everything is hunky-dory is just burying your head in the sand and have also had much experience of this so I know how infuriating this can be.

    I think the biggest reason , in my humble opinion, for poor retention is people dont actually join any more for the career/lifestyle, they join to get a trade( I have heard many young lads voice this opinion). They have little or no experience of civvy street and think that the army is the only place that you get talked down too, bossed about and generally slog your guts out for no thanks.

    I fully understand the view that going on tour is not an aspect that civvies are expected to undergo but people must have been aware that just from the news over the last 5 years tours were ineviatable ( or maybe that my age speaking)

    I still stand by my original point that the good far outways the bone but respect the opinion of those that have served some time. Who knows maybe in ten years I might feel differently, Id like to think not but that my optomistic attitude coming through again.

    Keep the opinions coming as I am interested to read what others think.

    PS I have more chances to go adventurous training than I can shake a stick at(maybe that right place right time dont know)
  14. i can only talk for the trade i was, but a lot of the young lads that tipped up as young crafties at units i was at actually didnt actually want to be VM's at all. A lot of them were hoodwinked at the Recruitment Office and told they could change later to the trade they actually wanted to be. Maybe due to the severe shortfall in the trade this may be a reason? I dont really know how Recruiters get briefed or if they have a quota to fill.

    This used to infuriate me, as in my oppinion, if you wanted to be a trade, and now u are in that trade, you will do better at it and show some interest as you have a genuine goal to succeed in it.

    I think in all honesty, your "join to get a trade quote" could be translated into "i cant get a decent job in civvy street so fcuk it, ill join the army"

    Just my oppinion OldAge, and certainly not a dig, you sound as if you have a head on your shoulders judging by your posts, whether others agree with them or not.
  15. OAC, What an excellent response and input. Shows both your maturity and breadth of experience. My opinion is that right now the boys are feeling undervaluead and are being overworked both on tour and in barracks. there is not enough time or manpower available for all the nice to haves (inter unit sport etc) and thee are to few resources (money) being provided to improve the infrastructure enough to make a difference. I also feel that fairly soon soldiers are going to insist on being allowed to retain higher levels of privacy in the accomodation which they are required to rent from the MoD. Can you imagine the reaction of a civilian employee to insitence by his/her employer that their flat be opened for inspection? !!

    Notwithstanding this good does outweigh bad, although we need to work hard to retain the balance, perhaps the succesful creation and establishment of a Forces Federation (as recommended by the RMP 6 report and proposed by ARRSE) will help mainatin pressure on the CoC, and thus the Government of the day to take service personnel issues seriously.