Should we seek Chinas help in Afghanistan?

#1
Wonder how many troops China can let us have for an Afghan mission?
 
#3
Oh, they may only be prepared to mobilise a 20th of their Army for it? Not really showing committment there at all - Chow Mein eating surrender monkeys.

All joking aside (no insult intended PRCPLA) , China also has a problem with opium , though they seem to have kept militant Islam in check for the time being.

Or do we have to bomb their embassy first to get them to talk to us?

Actually , and maybe AJ being a 'China Hand' can help me out with this... Haven't China and Pakistan recently signed some high level strategic co-operation treaty? Could we use China, to leverage Pakistan as regards the Taliban? Not that I'm saying Pakistan has any influence on the Taliban of course :x If Chinese troops were committed to some of the areas we really have dramas in , could we not then return to what the mission was supposed to be about in the first place?

Ahhhhhhh found it

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-04/06/content_431695.htm

China, Pakistan sign cooperation treaty
By Zhao Huanxin (chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2005-04-06 09:24

ISLAMABAD -- China and Pakistan signed on Tuesday night a treaty for friendly and neighbourly co-operation, pledging to upgrade their strategic partnership to an even higher level.

The pact, which came after Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao's talks with his counterpart Shaukat Aziz Tuesday night, encapsulated the successful experience of bilateral relations in more than half a century, and charted the course for future development.

In addition to the treaty, the two countries also inked a dozen of other accords, including those on fighting terrorism, extremism and separatism, and on early harvest programme of a Free Trade Agreement between the two countries.

Wen said it is a common task for China and Pakistan to further consolidate and promote their relations. The two countries should work to ensure a long-term
and steady growth of their ties, and develop a closer strategic partnership in line with the stipulations of the treaty, he said
So China offer 200K troops to sort Helmland and Khandahar , while we go back to getting the hearts and minds op sorted out. China is offered something they really want (G8 membership?) at a date to be decided , when they have withdrawn the last of their troops from a subdued and cowed (and possibly wasted) Helmland and Khandahar?

Well could it work?
 
#5
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh. Had the UNSC page open and was reading through that as I was typing. Mental cut and paste. Arrrrrrrgh :oops:

Sorry - G8
 
#6
Offering them 'most favoured trading nation' status with the US and some sort of input into World Bank decision making might help, but I can't see the US going for it.

Anyhoo, imagine the revolt when people realise we're on side with the rapists of Tibet just to get us out of a hole, and then have to reciprocate....
 
#7
I wonder how big the Chinese market for medical opiates is?

China opens a poppy processing plant in Afghanistan to produce medical opiates at a fraction of the price. China protects it's investment with the aforementioned 200K happy children of the revolution.

Ok, slight tangent but you see what I'm getting at here. Time to start thinking outside the box.

Chinese Manpower and ingenuity , British guidance and know-how.

Well it worked in Hong Kong, and that was born of a similar operation...
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#9
PartTimePongo said:
All joking aside (no insult intended PRCPA) , China also has a problem with opium
Ouch. I thought you said all joking aside...you know the history of how the Chinese got hooked on Opium? I seem to recall we got them hooked on it so they would trade tea, which they were reluctant to trade till they were hooked on smack, but I might be wrong....

...maybe we should check that they've forgotten before the UK asks for help...
 
#10
There were two major reasons why the Tibetans never mounted a counter insurgency against the Chinese.

1) The Dalai Lama requested that the Tibetan population pursue nonviolent methods to liberate themselves.

2) The ChiComs jailed/shot anyone who even looked at them funny.

If we allow the Chinese in on this op, I'm not convinced that they'll provide the sort of counter insurgency soldiers/soldiering needed to win. 200,000 blokes or 200,000 targets?

I would also feel very uneasy cooperating with such a disgusting government on any level.

Edited for clarification
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#12
Mad_Moriarty said:
PartTimePongo said:
Or do we have to bomb their embassy first to get them to talk to us?
Please dont, It's a nice listed building in Portland Place!.
As a tidy tie up of two posters, I actually delivered an 85th Birthday card to the embassy on the day that they opened the Tibet railway....
 
#13
gingwarr said:
I would also feel very uneasy cooperating with such a disgusting government on any level.
I couldn’t agree more.

The People’s Republic of China is one of the most repressive dictatorships on this planet. Not only do they occupy Tibet, trying to wipe out the Tibetan’s culture by vicious repression of any dissent, severe restrictions on their religion, flooding the place with Han Chinese immigrants and making the Tibetans second class citizens in their own country, they are also doing the same thing in Inner Mongolia and East Turkestan. In China itself they pursue similar repressive policies against their own people.

Why would anyone want the help of a regime like that to spread “freedom and democracy”, concepts which are entirely alien to the Chinese government?
 
#14
Because to spread freedom and democracy , we are going to have to have to forcefully suppress those that would wish to return Afghanistan to the Middle Ages.

The Chinese have form for it, and a treaty with Pakistan that may also allow hot pursuit. Dangle the carrot of G8 or other delights and see what happens. Anyone who thinks the Taliban can be defeated with anything less than draconian measures in the first phase is fooling themselves.

I find some aspects of the American Government's current policy disgusting, but we still work with them to hopefully achieve a greater good
 
#15
PartTimePongo said:
Because to spread freedom and democracy , we are going to have to have to forcefully suppress those that would wish to return Afghanistan to the Middle Ages.
Shame we didn't leave the Soviet Union to it, then.

If we need the help of the PRC to "spread freedom and democracy" the mission has failed. With thier involvement there would be no freedom and no democracy.
 
#16
Anyone remember the strange story that in return for Osama restraining the Ugihurs in Xingjian province, the PLA would in return build a communication network in Afghanistan? The deal which was signed on the 11th September 2001, but never came fruition.

Secondly, anyone heard that other strange story that in Pakistani Baluchistan (which borders Afghanistan), there is a section of the Taliban which happens to be Pro-Chinese? Must be the benefits of Chinese investment there!

The other thing about Baluchistan is that it is rather central not only to the Iranian-Indian-Pakistani pipeline but also a prime location from which say other pipelines from central Asia could run!

So unless, the Chinese feel that the Pakistanis cannot protect their energy interests in that vast region, there will be no involvement in Afghanistan, especially, if ,it could benefit their energy rivals (USA) who happened to be rather bogged down in other matters!.
 
#17
PartTimePongo said:
Because to spread freedom and democracy , we are going to have to have to forcefully suppress those that would wish to return Afghanistan to the Middle Ages.

The Chinese have form for it, and a treaty with Pakistan that may also allow hot pursuit. Dangle the carrot of G8 or other delights and see what happens. Anyone who thinks the Taliban can be defeated with anything less than draconian measures in the first phase is fooling themselves.

I find some aspects of the American Government's current policy disgusting, but we still work with them to hopefully achieve a greater good
Return? How can they return to the Middle Ages when they haven't even been there yet? :(
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#18
castlereagh said:
Secondly, anyone heard that other strange story that in Pakistani Baluchistan (which borders Afghanistan), there is a section of the Taliban which happens to be Pro-Chinese? Must be the benefits of Chinese investment there!
The story of the spread of Islam to China is quite interesting (not read alot on it) but it seems that they were made to be welcome very quickly, and as they had mostly arrived via trade routes quickly rose to be trade and/or economic players and/or advisors. The Chinese do not share the same turmoils with Islam that the Christian West does...
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#19
PartTimePongo said:
Because to spread freedom and democracy , we are going to have to have to forcefully suppress those that would wish to return Afghanistan to the Middle Ages.

The Chinese have form for it, and a treaty with Pakistan that may also allow hot pursuit. Dangle the carrot of G8 or other delights and see what happens. Anyone who thinks the Taliban can be defeated with anything less than draconian measures in the first phase is fooling themselves.

I find some aspects of the American Government's current policy disgusting, but we still work with them to hopefully achieve a greater good
Realpolitik - where principles meet the harsh reality of life.

Some interesting stuff here folks. I must admit to thinking along similar lines last night. Could be a good way of influencing China and stabilising the region. Get the Chinese to help with the infrastructure build - roads, water, power etc. Hell, they've just built a railway across the highest mountain range on the planet!
 
#20
Nehustan said:
castlereagh said:
Secondly, anyone heard that other strange story that in Pakistani Baluchistan (which borders Afghanistan), there is a section of the Taliban which happens to be Pro-Chinese? Must be the benefits of Chinese investment there!
The story of the spread of Islam to China is quite interesting (not read alot on it) but it seems that they were made to be welcome very quickly, and as they had mostly arrived via trade routes quickly rose to be trade and/or economic players and/or advisors. The Chinese do not share the same turmoils with Islam that the Christian West does...
I think it's because they are just so darn pragmatic :D
The Chinese are big are Baluchistan, there have even been some sightings of the PLA in certain Pakistani military bases!
 

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