Should We Arm The Average Plod?

#1
Just been watching the box and Derek Bird is back in the news after his shooting spree in Whitehaven etc last year.

One of the issues raised was that the plod closed down the area - not allowing medics in to deal with casualties. Some casualties were left for over 2 hours, witnesses saying the local plod looked terrified. Seems to me that if they were all issues with at the very least a revolver - the medics could have been escorted in and out. The whole issue might have been brought to a much speedier end.

Not forgetting that Scumbag Moat, had the cops been armed, I would wager that at least one cop would have his eyesight and still be doing his job.

Time for a re-visit on this one I think.
 
#2
I believe the majority of coppers don't want to be armed.

Do the police have the time or money to train all of their personnel to be safe with their weapons, never mind proficient shots? The Army doesn't even seem to be able to do it these days never mind expecting bobbies to do it.
 
#3
I spoke to a copper not long ago about this and he was of the thought train that it causes more problems than it solves, heavy handedness by overzealous PCs and regular bar brawls turning into something more ugly when either the police pulls his weapon out or some idiot takes it from his holster. I think tazers should be given to every policeman / woman and keep the specialist firearm teams.
 
#4
I believe the majority of coppers don't want to be armed.
I'm not sure how true that is anymore. I know this used to be the case, or at least that's what the politicians and blue top brass would say.

But, I know a few cops and they do tend to get rather excited whenever they are issued with new toys.
 
#5
Yes, how else will they be able to direct traffic!



I wrote a long post about NI situation that went MIA due to "server busy" so posted this instead
 
#7
Can't say I've ever seen a media frenzy, reporting the news is the job of journalists - goes with living a democratic society where there is some freedom of the press.... the alternatives are shit.

If being armed goes with the territory being a cop, then that is that. Nobody can make the cop pull the trigger and with proper ROE, can't see the problem. What I do envisage is when a cop walks in a pub to deal with a brawl, people know the cop is armed, people like Moat and Bird dealt with more effectively.

I can't see any negatives at the mo.
 
#8
I believe the system used to be a locked gun cabinet in the station with the keys held by an Inspector.
Firearms were issued if needed or in some areas as requested by beat officers.

If firearms had been available to olice Officers in Workington there is a chance that Bird's tally would have been a lot lower. The Officers who caught up with him may have been able to do more than leg it when Bird pointed a shotgun at them. In other parts of the country armed Police would have been much closer with a correspondingly lower response time. Ironically there is a heavily armed Police Force very close to the days events (at Sellafield) but their initial responsibilities were to ensure security at Sellafield.

As for firearms training being a problem, the Army manages to train quite a lot of soldiers to handle them profficiently so it shouldn't be that big a deal.

I wouldn't trust your average Plod with a biro but it is time policy was looked at again. These days we live in a country obsessed with the idea that guns are evil but inspite of trying to rid the country of things that go bang we are no safer and are probably more likely to be a victim of gun crime than we were when firearms were readily available to all and sundry.
 
#9
Don't beleive the average bobby should be armed. That said, they should have the back up, both legal and hardware wise, to complete their job.

ie they arrest some fcuker, then said fcuker goes down. Or on the pressing of a button, the armed bods rock up and do the business.

Likewise, if we started enforcing the correct procedures as laid down then most nutters wouldn't be armed (ie Dunblane, Hungerford even Moat i think.
 
#10
I wouldn't trust your average Plod with a biro but it is time policy was looked at again.
Indeed.... Drills, drills and more drills.

These days we live in a country obsessed with the idea that guns are evil but inspite of trying to rid the country of things that go bang we are no safer and are probably more likely to be a victim of gun crime than we were when firearms were readily available to all and sundry.
Absolutely... baddies already armed blah blah blah.
 
#11
It is quite true though that, despite the measures in place to reduce the amount guns on the street, we still have an abundance of weapons on the street.
 
#13
I thought the Police were much more routinely armed than most people thought and I was surprised that they didn't get Moat quicker than they did. Perhaps it's more of a London thing and me living near Heathrow as well. I think there is a case for the Police being allowed to carry side arms these days. Criminals have certainly moved with the times and many are happy to carry guns in spite of the fact that it's a mandatory prison sentence if they get caught.

I also think there could be a case in a few years, maybe 10 years or so, to actually relax the gun laws in this country so that people can have the means to defend themselves against the criminal gun carrying fraternity. How many victims would Moat have added to his score if a member of the public had been in possession of a gun and had an opportunity to stop him killing so many.
 
#14
Criminals have certainly moved with the times and many are happy to carry guns in spite of the fact that it's a mandatory prison sentence if they get caught.

I also think there could be a case in a few years, maybe 10 years or so, to actually relax the gun laws in this country so that people can have the means to defend themselves against the criminal gun carrying fraternity. How many victims would Moat have added to his score if a member of the public had been in possession of a gun and had an opportunity to stop him killing so many.
We (as a country) have got firearms legislation completely arse about face.
What we should be doing is prosecuting mis-use of firearms severely, instead we have made the desire to have a firearms of anykind the sin.

Hold up the postoffice with a shotgun and get 25 years hard labour, shoot bugsbunny with the landowners permission, so what?
 
#15
Arm the plod!, you must be joking. Some can't even be trusted with CS spray or PAVA.
CS spray is to be used from at least a 3 foot distance, ie arms length. Yet on reality tv shows you see the plod using it a point blank range right in the face.
 
#16
The problem is that response officers deal with a wide spectrum of calls where the presence of guns maybe around vulnerable victims, elderly and small children would not be appropriate. The system right now doesn't work as when a firearms unit is needed it can sometimes take 15 minutes to get them on scene, by which time the opportunity to apprehend the offender/s is too late. This issue is a tough one but maybe the tazer would be useful to response.
 
#19
I thought the Police were much more routinely armed than most people thought and I was surprised that they didn't get Moat quicker than they did. Perhaps it's more of a London thing and me living near Heathrow as well. I think there is a case for the Police being allowed to carry side arms these days. Criminals have certainly moved with the times and many are happy to carry guns in spite of the fact that it's a mandatory prison sentence if they get caught.

I also think there could be a case in a few years, maybe 10 years or so, to actually relax the gun laws in this country so that people can have the means to defend themselves against the criminal gun carrying fraternity. How many victims would Moat have added to his score if a member of the public had been in possession of a gun and had an opportunity to stop him killing so many.
Good points.

I personally would like to be armed to the teeth. I also think I should be allowed to shoot burglars (not that I've been burgled) - I like the Septic approach to a point, where it all goes tits up is they have a pretty shit record on crime. When I look around me... I genuinely wouldn't want the average civvie carrying a tin opener, never mind a firearm.

You can apply for a shotgun license or a rifle... where I live... there are more weapons per capita owned by the civ div than any other area of the country... tis also one of the lowest crime areas too... although it is rural ish.

I do hate the nanny, soppy state, but I don't want anarchy either. Arming the cops and drilling em to death is the right way forward for me.
 
#20
As for firearms training being a problem, the Army manages to train quite a lot of soldiers to handle them profficiently so it shouldn't be that big a deal.
In theory we do, in reality you get dragged in twice a year (unless you're going away somewhere) and either pass your WHT test first time or (half the time) just get signed off anyway because the trained instructor has forty seven other jobs he's supposed to do and doesn't have time to do the lessons and retests. The next day you go out and do the APWT and sit there all day while the same eight people who can't shoot straight reshoot over and over and over again until everyone gets bored and puts someone in the lane next to them to knock their targets over, decides to just lie and say they passed or you run out of ammo.

It might not be the same in the infantry, but in the support arms that I've seen (R Signals and attached REME, Chefs, Clerks etc) the standard of weapon handling and shooting from some is fucking criminal.

If the Army can't do it properly when it's the raison d'etre of our job, how are the police going to do it?
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top