Should the UK police be armed?

Should the UK police carry firearms?

  • Yes, when on duty

    Votes: 26 18.1%
  • Yes, at all times

    Votes: 22 15.3%
  • No, the current policy is good enough

    Votes: 72 50.0%
  • No, they should never carry firearms at all

    Votes: 24 16.7%

  • Total voters
    144
  • Poll closed .
I think the UK police are being cut back to the point where they need to carry firearms all the time. Do you agree? I would not like to see this change, but I don't see how the police can do their jobs safely if they can't call for reinforcements.
News of further cuts here:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/31/police-force-new-spending-cuts-22000-jobs

A friend in the USA tells me that their police forces are being reduced as well, and that they have responded by buying more weapons, including tanks. However, this article indicates that the Pentagon made them take them.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/police-departments-struggle-return-pentagon-military-surplus-gear

Happy voting.
 
Didn't we do a million page thread on this very subject a few months ago?
 
Yay NZ kicking Aussies arrses in the gun murdering.....er, hold on.
 
Arming police officers is not a replacement for the loss of up to 45,000 police over a 10 year period.

I have never met a firearm that can take a statement, pursue a car, make an arrest, interview a suspect etc.

The real question is what will the police stop routinely doing that the public has become used to over decades of being the service of last resort that never says no?

When the army gets smaller, you can stop engaging in far off wars and take your chances that it doesn't come back to bite you later.

We need to start considering what chances we are willing to take with policing.

Let's start with the first Royal Commission into Policing since 1960.


Wets
 

nodandawink

War Hero
There doesn't seem to be any great call by either the police themselves (far from it), or the public, to move to a situation where all officers are armed.

So why go to the expense, risk and hassle of doing it?

What has changed that necessitates arming them? The threat of a Tunisia/Mumbai style attack is hardly likely to be reduced by arming rank and file officers - having a sidearm didn't help the French cops caught up in the Charlie Hebdo attack for example. I can see a need (which I believe has been/is being addressed) for increasing the numbers and capability of specialist armed units, but for me there is no need to give plod guns at the present time.

The current government are likely to put further pressure on policing budgets, in line with austerity measures across government. This may lead, in some areas, to a reduction in the number of warranted officers. If it does, expect PCC's and Chief Constables to bleat about having to cut front-line services, whilst quietly getting on with getting rid of underperformers, outdated working practices, unwanted estate and back-office staff....
 

g4eddie

Old-Salt
Petardier
I would go further - those weapons the Police have got should be for self-defence only NOT anything else.

Therefore in my small minded opinion, all the para-military weapons and kit we regularly see being carried (at least in london) should be removed and replaced with the appropriate kit. SO19 and its ilk must be urgently drafted into the military along with the budget and the police should return to their core role of lifting criminals rather than transforming into the oh-so-sexy swat-special-para-military -counter terrorist wanabees we see too often.
There is no need for military caliber assault rifles and kit including drop-leg holsters and multi stack mags etc.
Counter terrorism is the exclusive realm of the military.

Therefore carbine length weapons of heavy pistol caliber required along with shot guns and pistols.Anything else is purely for show and swagger and thus inappropriate. If they are allowed to carry military spec weapons and the assosiated kit and training they will naturally default to using them. Oh and the fire brigade and boarder chaps should be part of the military....


And breathe

G4eddie
 

pinksniper

Old-Salt
I think the UK police are being cut back to the point where they need to carry firearms all the time. Do you agree? I would not like to see this change, but I don't see how the police can do their jobs safely if they can't call for reinforcements.
News of further cuts here:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/31/police-force-new-spending-cuts-22000-jobs

A friend in the USA tells me that their police forces are being reduced as well, and that they have responded by buying more weapons, including tanks. However, this article indicates that the Pentagon made them take them.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/police-departments-struggle-return-pentagon-military-surplus-gear

Happy voting.
Equipping Police with Tank's? I like it, military vehicles (not including ambulances) with blueys, "Hi this is Oscar-Alpha-1, equipped with M1 Abrams MBT, responding to a domestic they got 3 home boyz bustin a cap in da ova blocks A-hole"

Mind you RMP assist Essex police with Colchester based personnel in this procedure

How about pushing for more special constables to be recruited? Cameron's been bashing over increasing the Reserve by 30,000 under Army 2020 and my parent unit is overstaffed
 
I have never met a firearm that can take a statement, pursue a car, make an arrest, interview a suspect etc.
With a firearm you need not worry about all that nonsense.
 

arcticfox042

Old-Salt
Yes .... armed 24/7

 
The only thing the police should be routinely armed with is an unswerving sense of justice, clips around the ears of ne'er do wells and a well polished pair of shoes. Mark my words.
 
It's by no means a perfect system but our police are well armed where it's deemed necessary and there are procedures to get armed Police to an incident when something occurs.

Of course, sometimes things happen and it might have been a better outcome for the police if weapons had been available to them instantly.

There is no crystal ball though. You often can't tell what will happen when the police turn up and you also can't always say if the outcome would have been any different if they had been carrying weapons. Unfortunately, armed police officers are sometimes killed in the line of duty.

I'd prefer to leave it as it is unless there is a marked increase in police being confronted with firearms being used against them.

While this matter is something that the authorities will no doubt be keeping an overview on, I do think those who are in the front line of policing, the ordinary coppers should have a significant say about it.

The last time I read anything about it, the majority of police officers were against routine arming. I don't know if that has changed.
 
There is another very large thread on this subject elsewhere on arrse. However, here is why I don't think that UK police should be armed any more than they are now; and why it is that UK is not at all comparable with the USA in terms of gun crime:
View attachment 215831
As you can see, the UK doesn't even make it onto the list.

There is a spreadsheet of similar data collated by the UNODC here: https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Homicides_by_firearms.xls
That figure seems far too low Matt, 13000 firearm related murders a year out of a populace of 328 million equates to a heck of a lot more than that.
 
Last edited:
That figure seems far too low Matt, 33000 murders a year out of a populace of 328 million equates to a heck of a lot more than that.
I'm only the messenger and I have disclosed the sources of info, so feel free to take it from there. I'm on me iphone at the mo so can't follow up. Later praps.
 
Petardier
I would go further - those weapons the Police have got should be for self-defence only NOT anything else.

Therefore in my small minded opinion, all the para-military weapons and kit we regularly see being carried (at least in london) should be removed and replaced with the appropriate kit. SO19 and its ilk must be urgently drafted into the military along with the budget and the police should return to their core role of lifting criminals rather than transforming into the oh-so-sexy swat-special-para-military -counter terrorist wanabees we see too often.
There is no need for military caliber assault rifles and kit including drop-leg holsters and multi stack mags etc.
Counter terrorism is the exclusive realm of the military.

Therefore carbine length weapons of heavy pistol caliber required along with shot guns and pistols.Anything else is purely for show and swagger and thus inappropriate. If they are allowed to carry military spec weapons and the assosiated kit and training they will naturally default to using them. Oh and the fire brigade and boarder chaps should be part of the military....


And breathe

G4eddie
Interesting that some folk gave this post bullshit icons. And yet there is more than a germ of sense in it. We do seem to be moving towards certain sections of the police becoming "paramilitary". I used inv coms there for obvious reasons -.the police cannot be a military force because they are a service. Armed force should be left to the military. Police arms are for self protection only.
 

pinksniper

Old-Salt
Interesting that some folk gave this post bullshit icons. And yet there is more than a germ of sense in it. We do seem to be moving towards certain sections of the pics becoming "paramilitary". I used inv coms there for obvious reasons -.the police cannot be a military force because they are a service. Armed force should be left to the military. Police arms are for self protection only.
The CNC and MOD police are routinely armed as they have a select function specific for their establishment or area of expertise.

There are plenty of AFO's widely available, Mark Duggan had the attention of at least 11 trigger happy po-po
 

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