Should the British Govt Pay more Attention to Its Muslims?

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#21
Norfolknchance said:
Why is it that most wars which have been fought on this planet (not counting Star Wars) have been about clashes of religion? Each religion recognises that there is one God (each to his or her own beliefs on that one), Noah, Joshua, Jesus all appear in both the Bible and Koran so WTF can't people live in peace? OK, I may not want to live next to a specific family so either I move or they move. The Gobment would appear to pay a tad more attention to Muslims and their wants and beliefs than other religions IMHO.
That just isn't true. Sorry but most of the Wars fought in the last millenia have been fought over the premise of power and control. Ultimately money. Religion was used as a tool to envigorate the masses. When your that poor that you believe the only way to a better life is through your respective sky fairy then war with another troublesome sky fairy seems like a logical path. Afghanistan is a case in point. The Taliban footsoldier is poor. He believes that if he follows the path laid down by his prophet he will have a better life given by the grace of god if he dies he will ascend to allah and get the pick of 72 items out of the Virgin back catalogue. His imams have told him that this will be the case. The west on the other hand need to control this region of the world under the premise of terrorism. Religion forms no part of the wests doctrine or policy. We need to stop terrorists flying things into tall buildings and other such shit because at the end of the day it's bad for business. If it was as fundamental as religion then we would see Osama and the gang charging at the head of the next assault. Not going to happen because you can't exert power or control from the other side ergo you can't amass wealth when you are dead. There needs to be a change of policy in Afghanistan and this has been foisted around in here a few times. If you could show the average afghani that there is a better life than the one they currently endure then they might be little more reluctant to vapourise themselves for a skyfairy that couldn't give a shit.
 
#22
DozyBint said:
I wonder if the previously accepted wisdom that 'those who shout the loudest have the least influence' has been over-turned during the Blair / Brown years. Do decisions no longer get made over fine wines and spirits in smoke-filled rooms? If we argue that feet on the ground, e.g. the Countryside Alliance marches, did no good then why do we panic that other groups' marches have an impact on the policy-makers?
Because, my dear, "the policy-makers", being to a 'man' spineless tossers who've never spent a minute in the Queen's uniform, live in mortal fear of being blown to bits one day by one of their peace-loving but excitable constituents (or at the very least being voted out of cushy office), if ever they lift a finger in defence of the rights of the law-abiding and genuinely peace-loving majority. And don't you know that "smoke-filled rooms" have gone the way of so much else that was part of our liberal, live-and-let-live society before the neo-Fascists came to power in 1997?
 
#23
Muslims were prevelent in the UK long before Afghan/Bosnia. It's only since we went in to Afghan they've cropped up on the radar & are more noticeable due to the antics of terry.
 
#24
Norfolknchance said:
Why is it that most wars which have been fought on this planet (not counting Star Wars) have been about clashes of religion? Each religion recognises that there is one God (each to his or her own beliefs on that one), Noah, Joshua, Jesus all appear in both the Bible and Koran so WTF can't people live in peace? OK, I may not want to live next to a specific family so either I move or they move. The Gobment would appear to pay a tad more attention to Muslims and their wants and beliefs than other religions IMHO.
Nah. Most wars on this planet have been fought over natural resources. However, in the later part of human history wars have been fought over resources, but leaders have claimed that it was a holy war / God is on their side etc. to get people to fight for them. It is normally very little to do with religion, and quite regularly to do with land / water / oil / ports / diamonds / other goods.
 
#25
mac1 said:
they get enough attention - there's more mosques per muslim capita in the UK than in Iran AND sunnis can practice their version of islam and buy sunni korans unlike in Iran and other majority muslim countries which have similar restrictions on the type of Islam practiced.
sunni and shia don't get on see iraq :roll: to put it mildly.
unfortunatly the vast majority of muslims in the UK come via hill villages of pakistan so you have the muslim version of bible belt inbreds whose mosques and imans are funded by saudi who would make paisley look like a typical c of e wishy washy liberal :(

they expect children to marry 2nd cousins :cry: this isn't a group thats going to intergrete in there own country the next village is the enemy. :(
 
#26
Nobody seems to be addressing the question of why certain British Muslims don't feel that much loyalty to the UK.

Could it be for the same reasons some indigenous segments of society don't, but that they just happen to have another focus for identity to sidle into the void left by the failure of 'Britishness'?

They can't integrate unless they're integrated and sadly, folks, that means you're going to have to live alongside them while that's happening. Otherwise they won't ever learn how to be British.

It doesn't happen by magic.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#27
smartascarrots said:
Nobody seems to be addressing the question of why certain British Muslims don't feel that much loyalty to the UK.

Could it be for the same reasons some indigenous segments of society don't, but that they just happen to have another focus for identity to sidle into the void left by the failure of 'Britishness'?

They can't integrate unless they're integrated and sadly, folks, that means you're going to have to live alongside them while that's happening. Otherwise they won't ever learn how to be British.

It doesn't happen by magic.
Is it because certan Muslims don't want to be British

On of the reason offered in defence of Young Muslim men who were being jailed after the Bradford Riots was that he was the main English or the only English speaker in the family
Despite families being here for 25 years

I think the UK offers excellent opportunities to intregrate however many choose not to
Thats why despite being born here and educated here many still speak English only as a second langauge and see the homeland as somewhere else

Why do Leeds born Pakistanis need to blow themselves up in defence of the people of Iraq?
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#28
It keeps rearing its ugly head this topic don't it!?

Ah well, here we go again: No the government should not pay more attention to Muslims in the UK. It should adopt an entirely new policy for every religion in the UK; this being: Practice and enjoy your religion quietly, in your own homes or worshipping halls, but bother nobody else with it. Do not knock on their doors, protest in the street or advertise for new converts on billboards, hoardings, radio or television.

Each of these religions professes to be one of peace and love, and light, and harmony, thus if it strays from this path, it sets itself lively at odds with its own tenets, and that of the government and majority of people in this country. It makes of itself an enemy of the people and government of this land.

If you and your religion give cause for concern or fear or strife or murder, your religion and its adherants will be held responsible, with those men or women of the cloth taking the brunt of the response in chains, in prison, or on boats back to your tribal origin, whichever is the most suited.


The above would make a great policy for any newly formed government.
 
#29
Biped said:
It keeps rearing its ugly head this topic don't it!?

Ah well, here we go again: No the government should not pay more attention to Muslims in the UK. It should adopt an entirely new policy for every religion in the UK; this being: Practice and enjoy your religion quietly, in your own homes or worshipping halls, but bother nobody else with it. Do not knock on their doors, protest in the street or advertise for new converts on billboards, hoardings, radio or television.

Each of these religions professes to be one of peace and love, and light, and harmony, thus if it strays from this path, it sets itself lively at odds with its own tenets, and that of the government and majority of people in this country. It makes of itself an enemy of the people and government of this land.

If you and your religion give cause for concern or fear or strife or murder, your religion and its adherants will be held responsible, with those men or women of the cloth taking the brunt of the response in chains, in prison, or on boats back to your tribal origin, whichever is the most suited.


The above would make a great policy for any newly formed government.
Well, you have gone from spouting spectacularly obvious and well written common sense to a completely nonsensical conclusion from it.

We can not say "some adherents to religion X have taken a fundamentalist view, therefore we are going to arrest all of their priests (who may be moderates) and send them to some other country (which in likelihood they may never have even visited)" without this having the effect of further radicalising that religion, which would rightly feel like it had been attacked.

Besides, what do we do with fundamentalist christians? Send them back to Norway / Denmark / Ireland depending on whether they are descended from Vikings / Angles / Celts? (I am sure I have got those wrong, but you get the idea).
 
#30
the_boy_syrup said:
I 'll start the stop watch to see how long it takes this thread to be classed as racist and binned
Can I start the countdown?

10........
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#31
Bazzinho1977 said:
Biped said:
It keeps rearing its ugly head this topic don't it!?

Ah well, here we go again: No the government should not pay more attention to Muslims in the UK. It should adopt an entirely new policy for every religion in the UK; this being: Practice and enjoy your religion quietly, in your own homes or worshipping halls, but bother nobody else with it. Do not knock on their doors, protest in the street or advertise for new converts on billboards, hoardings, radio or television.

Each of these religions professes to be one of peace and love, and light, and harmony, thus if it strays from this path, it sets itself lively at odds with its own tenets, and that of the government and majority of people in this country. It makes of itself an enemy of the people and government of this land.

If you and your religion give cause for concern or fear or strife or murder, your religion and its adherants will be held responsible, with those men or women of the cloth taking the brunt of the response in chains, in prison, or on boats back to your tribal origin, whichever is the most suited.


The above would make a great policy for any newly formed government.
Well, you have gone from spouting spectacularly obvious and well written common sense to a completely nonsensical conclusion from it.

We can not say "some adherents to religion X have taken a fundamentalist view, therefore we are going to arrest all of their priests (who may be moderates) and send them to some other country (which in likelihood they may never have even visited)" without this having the effect of further radicalising that religion, which would rightly feel like it had been attacked.

Besides, what do we do with fundamentalist christians? Send them back to Norway / Denmark / Ireland depending on whether they are descended from Vikings / Angles / Celts? (I am sure I have got those wrong, but you get the idea).
Thjen we must come up with a suitable disincentive to those who would wage misery for their sky-fairies.

What say you?
 
#32
All I will say is most muslims quote, the Saudi sheik word for word as law, enough said.
 
#33
Biped said:
Thjen we must come up with a suitable disincentive to those who would wage misery for their sky-fairies.

What say you?
Ahh. I didn't expect the difficult question!

In response to the thread title - no. No more so than any other group whereby there is a small but fundamentally dangerous element to them - i.e. Muslims / Racists / ALF etc.

In response to your question - I would suggest increasing the size and capability of the security services, and harsher sentences (although I think judges are actually getting to grips on terror charges admirably so far).

Sadly though, we are pink-lint, so not likely to happen.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#34
SSeeker said:
All I will say is most muslims quote, the Saudi sheik word for word as law, enough said.
I would ask you to re-write that in English except I'm just about to lock the thread. Are you, by any chance, an educational asylum seeker?

Anyway... yes, the thread is vaguely racist in a dim-witted sort of way, but mostly it is just deeply dull, ignorant, predictable and boring, with the usual suspects taking their mindless dogma for a walk.

Locked.
 
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