Should recruit instructors wear non-issue kit?

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Bravo_Bravo, Mar 31, 2006.

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  1. Having had a few weekends looking at various DS instructing recruits, I have long noted that there seems to be no bar on wearing of eg. windproof smocks, Lowa boots etc.

    My view is that DS are there to set the standard and demonstate how to use the kit, its overall functionality and serviceability. By being seen in issue kit, recruits are made to feel confident that it works and have one less worry on their minds.

    Seeing range staff in COP vests, for example, makes them think that the issue webbing is pants - which it is not.

    Am I alone in this view? How can DS enforce dress standards if they themselves are not upholding them?

    And as for fat knacker DS....

  2. Yes, I quite agree with you. It does give the recruits the wrong impression.

    On the plus side though, they'll know what to spend their bounty on when they get it!
  3. I agree with B_B in theory, but I can also see the point that T_T makes about what kit you might consider purchasing. Regular instructors at ITC Catterick probably use the most minimal amount of issue kit conceivable in the field, and actively encourage recruits to purchase windproofs and the like. John Bulls wouldnt have a lot of business if not :D A lot of issue kit is sadly deficient, and I dont see any problems with DS advising recruits as to what healthy alternatives are available.
  4. Fine - but only once they have passed through initial training.

  5. it depends on what you are instructing and where and to whom. I agree if training recruits then issue kit in camp should be the norm. In the field it is a little different as a little more flexibility is granted. There is really no excuse for cop vests etc when firing on a gallery range as standard webbing should be worn. However this is down to the individual unit to enforce. What grips me are all the people who will never see a drop of rain in their lives or carry anything heavier than a mess tin walt it around in sas smocks and mountain boots. It is getting to the stage were even recruits are turning up in non issue footwear. At the end of the day DS have an exampe to set and people look up to them (allegedly). A classic example is the wearing of cam cream when training I have known some ds not to wear it when instructing fieldcraft as it sets them out from rest of the troops.
  6. Agreed - i didnt make myself clear. Also agree with the walting around in mountain boots/windproofs. Look no further than some RLC chefs or (my pet hate) ACF/ATC instructors for this one.
  7. Should recruit instructors wear non-issue kit?
    No. If the instructors won`t use the issued kit regardless of what it is how can he/she then instruct the said recruit in how to use it properly. recruit then gets to unit has no faith in the issued equipment because he/she has not been given the chance. fecksit all off and spends a few hundred pounds on sub standard civvie produced equipment, just to look ally.

    I have in the past purchased my own equipment for field use

    pls feel free to add commas, fullstops and any other grammatical adjustments that may aid you in the reading of the above statement
  8. The trend all over both Reg & TA is to wear the most comfortable kit. Preservation of the youthful body is very improtant as I now carry a number of long term minor 'niggles' caused by over-use injuries whilst training. Perhaps if my kit had been better 20 years ago I may have preserved a little better. I'm no fat Knacker but I have gone from sub 7:45 mile & half to 10:30 limping a lot of the way.
    However if you relate the question of kit worn by the DS, I was taught, Know you stuff, never bluff and practice what you preach. Recruits need to learn by example and know how to wear, care and make best use of what is issued.
  9. No, Instructors should use issue kit in phase 1.
  10. DS should be allowed to wear whatever combat boots they like as a boots a boot. You still have to care for them as you would do the issue boots. Same with combat smocks as they are essentially the same as the issue jackets except for a couple of zips here and there.
    But I think that if DS are going to teach recruits how to pack, costumise and generally make their webbing work (which is arguably an infantrymans most important bit of kit after his rifle) they should set the standard with issue webbing. I've seen experienced NCOs wear their webbing, which we all know takes experience to perfect, and they always set the standard.
    Making webbing work isnt a dark art so DS should be demonstrating to the recruits the way to do it.
    Finally I think that good webbing is a thing of pride and professionalism...You never see good soldiers with webbing hanging around their asses do you?
  11. Sometimes true. Rather backfired when I saw one dear boy having a go at one of the Chefs - who was daggered and winged, having been with the Cdo Bde for a goodly number of years..........
  12. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    I believe it is a fine line to tread. Our recruit training team run 3 eight weekend cadres per year, and usually attend CIC each year in a supervisory/continuity role. This is a hell of a lot of tabbing in boots, issued, heavy and I believe they should be able to wear their own boots. Our recruits wear combat jackets, and instructors para smocks or windproofs so they will never look the same anyway.

    They should, and do, wear issued webbing but it is personalised and does not reflect the recruit issue.

    I guess it could be seen as an aspiration - pass and you get to wear better kit, be more comfortable etc.
  13. I think this entire thread is garbage. Soldiers should take an interest and pride in their kit, should modify it as they see fit and if they can be bothered to spend their hard earned cash on it, well done to them.

    That said, fieldcraft should not be taught in COP vests. Not because their aren't "issue", but because they raise the body's profile when prone and overheat the torso - they are designed for use in confined spaces.

    And as for chefs wearing windproofs. They get as equally wet and windswept on the range as I do (and I've been issued one).

  14. Why do you have issues with ACF instructors using non issue kit ?

    We get issued the square root of fcuk all if we choose to supplement our issue kit why is that a problem ?

    I wear Lowa boots as they are more comfortable than issue boots and dont torture the knee that I fcuked in the TA. Plenty of guys have non issue jackets that our choice it is our money that we waste why should you have an issue with it ?
  15. There is a duty of care to the recruit, so as long as it's black and looks like a combat high on parade (from a distance anyway) then the individual should be allowed to wear the boot that best suits their feet. The army does not have the kit or staff to deal with people with different sized feet, over-pronating , or other weirdness, and if issue boots aren't 100% then the individual should not be stopped from buying their own boots.

    On all other kit then the message must be that the issue kit is good enough for your needs, instructors especially should always have webbing/cam/weapon in line with the lesson. Visitors, esp officers, should be checked before visits to make sure they are not walting it in chest rig, junglies, and wrap-rounds.