Should our bobbies be armed?

We've discussed this before on ARRSE, but I firmly believe it's time to tool them up with guns. There again, I live in Manchester and every week there's some sort of shooting going on. A bloke has just been on the TV telling how he was shot 8 times in a pub up the road from here (and survived). A case of mistaken identity.

Give the coppers a chance, tool them up.
We've all been there, out on the streets following the rules as laid down in a green/white/yellow/blue card that puts all the odds in the favour of the 'bad' guys.

Even armed the bad guys will still have the upper hand as they can open fire without warning and without regard for innocent by-standers. But I think that they may think twice about using guns if they know that there were trained armed police officers out there who would use lethal force if required.

It's time that the scales were tipped in favour of the good guys for once, if not by arming the police, by some other way.
No way, don't let the rozzers have would be like giving a gun to an 18yr old pay corps Sgt....facking unthinkable

(is there still an RAPC ?)
armourer, shut your ****ing mouth. I believe it has become necessary, sadly, that the PSNI should no longer be the only UK police force to arm all it's officers.
I am all in favour of giving the bobbies a fair chance and arming them BUT, and here, pp hit hte nail on the head. The powers that be would make the ROE so fcking complicated for the poor bar stewards, that they would be sh1t scared of using their weapons for fear of being crucified for unlawful killing or something. :evil:
Gents I worked with the police in the North West of England for two years.
Belive me there is no shortage of heavily armed police circulating in vans/range rovers and they are highly trained in all aspects of firearms.
Jonwilly - no shortage? Dont know which force you were with but the force i liase with dont have nearly enough and they're huge.
Manchester,Liverpool.Lancs and N Wales.
I am not qualified to say if they have enough, but they certainly do have well trained firearms qualified officers.
the officers as you will apriciate, are under considerable strain due to the nature of their duties and the fact that evry shot fired will be investigated.
Chosen bobbies to carry out a difficult duty.
They are well trained, they need to be with, as you mentioned every shot being under scrutiny they can not afford to make mistakes. They are assessed every 3 months to ensure they are still deemed acceptable, fail and they have to 3 months to be re-assessed.
jonwilly said:
Gents I worked with the police in the North West of England for two years.
Belive me there is no shortage of heavily armed police circulating in vans/range rovers and they are highly trained in all aspects of firearms.
i feel its not visable enough
i know but i feel visability is an obvious deterent.
no point hiding it inside a patrol car they are not going to know thatthe policeman they are facing is armed so is unable to either back down or shoot him in a act of bravado
manchestermonkey said:
armourer, shut your ****ing mouth. I believe it has become necessary, sadly, that the PSNI should no longer be the only UK police force to arm all it's officers.
get facked, half the rozzers don't want them, and are shit scared of them. Give all plod guns and watch the negligent discharges, lost guns and innocent bystanders shot and the amount of times that a gun was used inappropiatley will be amazing.

If you arm the whole plod, there will be a lack of training etc etc

*LONDON - More than three quarters of British police officers don't want to carry guns even though criminals are increasingly using weapons, according to a study.

A Police Federation survey of 13,000 officers found that 78 percent did not want to carry guns on everyday duties Almost 60 percent said they would resign rather than accept an order to carry a firearm.*

You want to force plods that don't want guns to carry them ????? facking clever or what ?
Gents when i worked alongside the police I would say that most officers did not want to be armed and to have the ultimate responsibility, which should be that of 12 good men and true and a judge.
i had many a debate where i argued that the ordinary man in the street wanted to see more uniformed officers on the street ,mainly to visably deter, the criminal.
i do believe that the police now have the system they want, i am not qualified to argue numbers.
They have a difficult job and one of their main conncerns express to me was that of the PC brigade.
i have live most of my life where the penalty for murder was death, and while i would not execute all i will go to my grave believing that for some murders there should be the ultimate penalty.
I never understood why we pay £100,000's/year to keep insane psycopaths locked up and a few tens of £ for OAPs.
There is a need for a visible deterent, like the one shown at airports, but there would be difficulty in arming all police officers.

There's a balance to be met with what the public want to see, the amount of training required by the officers and what the officers want. I mean they joined to do a job and you force them to take on that level of new responsibility quite a few will be unhappy with the change and yes, some would feel they had to leave.

There is no easy answer but the worst possible situation is no change.
Condolences to the family.

I believe that the arming of police wouldn’t deter many criminals.
HO figures show there are more illegal guns in the Capital than ever before, a backlash of our new open house policy.
In the area I live there are armed police openly displaying firearms on the street and have been for a few years now, again HO figures have shown no significant decrease in violent crime.
As to the argument it would give our officers a fighting chance, not sure I want that on my street, a gunfight. Would seem like the last resort.
Studies, granted carried out in the early 80's in Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh anonymously amongst a group of rather shady gentlemen showed the general consensus was that the reaction in a violent situation to an officers intervention was to use, believe it or not, 'reasonable force' that wouldn't cause death!
Strange set up really.
So the question I pose is this would the arming of police officers, given this thought tank, not increase the likelihood of an incident occurring?
the aftermath of a tragedy such as this, together with what occurred in Leeds and Manchester not too long ago, always seems a dangerous time to discuss the wholesale arming of our police officers.

as for an 'opt in' policy of carrying arms, it couldn't really work. It would be all or nothing, else controllers risk sending an unarmed callsign to an armed disturbance in error/ignorance, when now its a cert that an armed response team attends.

besides, how long would it be before there was an outcry over the shooting of an 'innocent' person?

yet i'm all for ensuring those who do the job they do are afforded every protection possible. and i'm inclined to think that that would be best met with more manpower and less paperwork.

and not community support officers either.
In Manchester we've come a long way since the '80s. I can still remember growing up late '70s and the early to mid '80s never hearing about guns being used. It was all bottles, knives and good old fists. Yeah, guns were used in armed robberies, but this wasn't the norm. Now in 2004, there are streets and towns in Manchester were you wouldn't, and I'm not exaggerating this, you wouldn't walk down in daylight, let alone night time, because armed gangs control these streets. Drugs play a massive part in the control of these streets. GMP has made some gains against some gangs, but there are so many guns (allegedly) in circulation, and there is general fear amongst the local population not to speak out because guns have been used to intimidate people. And we're not safe anywhere. A lone gunman came in to my old local two years ago on a packed Saturday night. He managed to fire 2 rounds at a person sat at the back of the packed pub. And he walked away into the night. A taxi driver was murdered three years ago with a MAC10.

I'm not saying the coppers can be everywhere all the time, but routinely arming the Police would make some of these thugs think twice about tooling themselves up. Can we not draw comparisons with other countries that routinely arm their Police? Do armed Police deter criminals from carrying guns in say the US or Ireland? In Southern Ireland, it’s common to see cash in transit vans been escorted by the Irish Army, tooled up with automatic weapons as a deterrence to armed robbers !! But imagine the implementation process to arm all British Police. The purchasing of weapons, the training, annual weapons tests, etc. A mammoth task?
Armourer your chatting out of your arrse, know many police officers? They may not want to carry a gun - doesnt mean they're scared of them. if they were scared they wouldnt be on the ****ing streets - i'm willing to bet a large sum you couldn't be a police officer. Do you think every PSNI officer wants to carry a gun? To have the ability to kill another human being? I dont want to be armed, but i 'need' to be, saying i'm scared also?

edit for spelling

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