should otc be renamed?

#1
to somthing like the university cadet corps?

I think the word officer gives a lot of otc bods ideas above their stations.
just because they are at university why is it assumed they should be officers?

thank you for your time ladies and gents
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#3
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
to somthing like the university cadet corps?

I think the word officer gives a lot of otc bods ideas above their stations.
just because they are at university why is it assumed they should be officers?

thank you for your time ladies and gents
The training after the first year is usually geared towards officer training though, do you think the training should be altered as well? OCdts are expected to act as OCdts and not as soldiers or NCOs, should those expectations be changed? It's expected that most of the OCdts will leave the forces for good after 3 years of OTC, do you think the impression the army leaves with these people should be different? Ask the majority of OCdts where they rank on the military food chain and most of them have a pretty good idea, it's just the usual few that don't, and they often get "helped out" by the staff.

Just out of curiosity CTATZ, what exactly grips your sh*t about the OTCs?
 
#4
You chippy b*stard....I smell, "I din't wanna be no officer while I wuz a student, yeah, coz it's much better to be a Tom and it'll mean so much more when I am an officer..." - all over you. I bet you're a frightfully serious young man.

However, yes, to an extent I agree with you. But that's beside the point. Go and do some outside areas, serf.
 
#5
Initially they were University Rifle Volunteers. But then they could be used deployably. Indeed some did (Cambridge University Rifle Volunteers have a 1900-01 battle honour from South Africa).

However a new renaming isn't a bad idea, yes Uni Cadet Corps would possibly work. But I don't think it's needed. It's only a small few who actually get ideas thinking they're officers already (whilst still Ocdts) and these few are usually straightened out by the majority.

Out of interest CTATZ, have you ever worked with any OTCs?


(Cheers steamy - i can admit to being drunk and incompetent, usually at the same time)
 
#6
unknownquality - I do think, from what I've heard and seen, that there should be a choice perhaps between those wishing to do mtq and those who wish to learn more soldiery skills (i.e gettin shat on by those who hav done mtq and want to feel special)

what grips my shit, as you put it, about the otc is that it invests a lot of money in to a lot of people who will become officers, whilst the acf (primarily a source for the other ranks) seems to do a lot worse out of funding

smells suspiciously like old boys school and class inequality to me ;)
 
#7
Belushi said:
You chippy b*stard....I smell, "I din't wanna be no officer while I wuz a student, yeah, coz it's much better to be a Tom and it'll mean so much more when I am an officer..." - all over you. I bet you're a frightfully serious young man.

However, yes, to an extent I agree with you. But that's beside the point. Go and do some outside areas, serf.
**** yourself sideways toff :p
 
#8
Operator said:
Initially they were University Rifle Volunteers. But then they could be used deployably. Indeed some did (Cambridge University Rifle Volunteers have a 1900-01 battle honour from South Africa).

However a new renaming isn't a bad idea, yes Uni Cadet Corps would possibly work. But I don't think it's needed. It's only a small few who actually get ideas thinking they're officers already (whilst still Ocdts) and these few are usually straightened out by the majority.

Out of interest CTATZ, have you ever worked with any OTCs?


(Cheers steamy - i can admit to being drunk and incompetent, usually at the same time)
not gone on an otc ex, had them come along with us and met quite a few at uni and bstt courses

most of the lads were good blokes but I dont think I could put up with johny red trousers and co.
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#9
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
unknownquality - I do think, from what I've heard and seen, that there should be a choice perhaps between those wishing to do mtq and those who wish to learn more soldiery skills (i.e gettin shat on by those who hav done mtq and want to feel special)

what grips my s***, as you put it, about the otc is that it invests a lot of money in to a lot of people who will become officers, whilst the acf (primarily a source for the other ranks) seems to do a lot worse out of funding

smells suspiciously like old boys school and class inequality to me ;)
So basically you think the TA should have a higher profile at the university freshers fairs and there should be a system where OCdts can move to TA regiments once they've past MTQ1 for maybe another 2 years? As far as I'm aware there is nothing stopping transfers post MTQ1 it just isn't the norm. The TA may benefit from it but I don't know if the TA will like some of the raw material they get from the OTC, especially if the person will only be around for 2 years.

I've avoided comparisons to the ACF because they're a youth organisation and not part of the army, although I won't deny the quantity of recruits they put into the system.
 
#10
Unknown_Quantity said:
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
unknownquality - I do think, from what I've heard and seen, that there should be a choice perhaps between those wishing to do mtq and those who wish to learn more soldiery skills (i.e gettin shat on by those who hav done mtq and want to feel special)

what grips my s***, as you put it, about the otc is that it invests a lot of money in to a lot of people who will become officers, whilst the acf (primarily a source for the other ranks) seems to do a lot worse out of funding

smells suspiciously like old boys school and class inequality to me ;)
So basically you think the TA should have a higher profile at the university freshers fairs and there should be a system where OCdts can move to TA regiments once they've past MTQ1 for maybe another 2 years? As far as I'm aware there is nothing stopping transfers post MTQ1 it just isn't the norm. The TA may benefit from it but I don't know if the TA will like some of the raw material they get from the OTC, especially if the person will only be around for 2 years.

I've avoided comparisons to the ACF because they're a youth organisation and not part of the army, although I won't deny the quantity of recruits they put into the system.
yeah, you summed it up better than I could (maybe why youre in otc and I'm ta ;) )

2years for TA is not really a bad thing. if they join their unit local to uni then chances are they will leave the regiment, but not the TA as a whole after 2 years. and even if they cant be deployed, 15 extra toms per company would increase the standard of training weekend. the more numbers, the less crap jobs per tom, less stag etc
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#11
Not wanting to give you my life story or anything, but I'm not OTC, and haven't been for a while. Good point about the extra bods per company though, I hadn't thought of it that way.
 
#12
Isn't that why as london we get calls from all over lon dist to help out with excercises? Ok from my old coy we were often short in sections, but doesn't that help make harder, therefore more useful weekends, which compared to reg excercises, lower level, but more exhausting?
 
#13
I avoided OTC at Uni and just joined the TA instead. Didn't do me any harm...
 
#14
There is a definite divide within OTC's.
On one side you have people who should be classed as University cadets, and the other you have people who aspire to be officers and/or join the regulars. If all of the latter leave and join the TA, then the OTC as it is would cease to exist. You need the keen bods in otc to lead and teach the others.
If all the keen beans left, then there would be no point in the OTC. Which is to promote leadership and skills amongst university students NOT to breed 100 officers a year.
 
#15
BigJobs said:
If all the keen beans left, then there would be no point in the OTC. Which is to promote leadership and skills amongst university students NOT to breed 100 officers a year.
Exactly - OTC is there to provide leadership training not just basic soldiering skills! Those that want to learn basic soldiering skills should join the TA!
Plus officer type training is useful for students that wish to be officers, as most graduates who go on to join the forces (with a few exceptions e.g nurses) are commisioned as officers - hence training in and officer training corps is more beneficial to them!
 
#16
I joined the TA when I was 17 choosing that over the OTC and like Arfur said it's done me no harm. I plan to get a TA Commission and from speaking to folk from the OTC we've done the same stuff, I've had just as much banter and I get paid more.

Back to the point of renaming though it has it's plus points but like someone said before those who act above their station are usually brought back down to Earth by the others, hopefully with a large bump.
 
#19
Or how about not changing the name at all - how about letting it do (making it do?) what it says on the tin?

OFFICER TRAINING

Apologies if this is too simple a concept for you highly educated types but although I've never been to yoony I still find it hard to credit how anyone could join by accident and not understand what the desired end-state should be. Or is it being mis-sold?
 
#20
This is likely to turn into one of those OTC bashing threads... so here's my two pence worth.

Once again what those who have never been part of, or worked with an OTC fail to grasp is the total different role that the OTC fulfils. They are not there to provide trained, deployable soldiers to support the Regular forces on operations, and neither is recruiting for the remainder of the armed forces a specified part of their mission although explaining the career options within the armed forces is a secondary task. The OTCs provide a taste of the army to university students who, it is hoped, will at some point fulfill a position in society in which a positive view of the armed forces and its members will benefit that organisation.

Those who join the OTC are a mixed bag; some are already interested in a career in the armed forces and might therefore join the TA while at university, but would be equally as likely to just sit out their time smoking dope and attending socialist worker rallies before staggering towards Old College parade square. The remainder have never considered the army in any way and have no concept of what it entails, their time in the OTC may encourage a few to seek employment under the colours but for those that do not they hopefully leave with a positive view of the Army that goes beyond the drunken, fighting, shagging image that is a soldier on a Friday night (or possibly have involved themselves in enough drunken fighting and shagging that they’ll be less judgmental!).

Would I appreciate more students in my platoon? Yes, just as I would anyone else who has the potential to carry large amounts of kit long distances and ultimately carry out simple orders. Would most of the lads (and girls) I see in the OTC have joined the TA had the OTC not been available? No, they would have found other ways to fill their time at university and would have left as ignorant of the military as when they arrived.

Finally what purpose would renaming the OTC fulfill? There is an assumption that those who are intelligent enough to attend university are intelligent enough to serve as officers. That is not to say that every student has the personality traits that the army looks for but that students are a good place to start looking. The training that the OTC undertakes is geared towards developing these characteristics. To train University OCdts, most of whom would never have joined any other arm of the services, simply as cadets would undervalue their potential.

I’ve started to rant… better stop and return to work.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top