Should National Service be brought back?

#21
the subject of national service has been done before.

My view remains the same. National Service either civilian or military is not viable because we could only make our own citizens abide by it. Non Britains could just give it the finger and still be queuing up for the state handouts they get for doing nothing.

Furthermore if we did make our own citizens undertake National Service who would take over the jobs they would have been doing. Foreign workers more than likely. What happens when the service is done and they try to find work again. No jobs as experienced foreign workers are already doing them.

However i am in favour of immigrants and longterm unemployed working in the community rather than doing nothing and being a burden on th estate. At least they would earn the benefits they are paid.

I suggested in a previous post that potential immigrants be offered citizenship in return for military service. I still think this idea should be a part of the package offered to potential immigrants.
 
#22
I know for a fact i wouldnt want those youth of today cnuts beside me in a warzone *******! we are not the best army in the world for letting any cnut in :)
 
#23
Start by recruiting the best and the brightest, put them through a central depot for military style (very) basic training then send them on to the Police Force, Fire Brigade, Ambulance, Lifeboats, Customs and Coastguard according to aptitude and preference.

Gradually expand the scheme and create fresh depots to supply the NHS, schools, Forestry Commision, museums and libraries etc. until every 18 year old expects to be drafted.

Every kid would leave home at 18 and be subjected to a period of discipline in a barracks and then perform a few years of compulsory uniformed service. They might mature faster, be better citizens and maybe even have a good time in the process. Society would benefit from the available manpower and addition to public services and people might retain life long links with the institutions they serve in. Volunteering and helping could become a way of life for a lot of people.
I would back this scheme up with the proviso that conscripts are subject to a form of discipline similar to Queens Regs and set aside a seperate prison for those who refuse service or offend during service.

I would keep the armed services as a professional paid career. Anybody already liable for national service would be allowed to volunteer for the army in the normal way. There would probably be a large increase in volunteers if the army remained a paid job and national service conscripts received only an allowance. If this were the case the army would be able to significantly raise recruiting standards and make basic training harder.
 
#24
callum13 said:
I know for a fact i wouldnt want those youth of today * beside me in a warzone *******! we are not the best army in the world for letting any cnut in :)
"youth of today" ?! Tell that to the young guys out in Afghan.
 
#25
callum13 said:
I know for a fact i wouldnt want those youth of today * beside me in a warzone *******! we are not the best army in the world for letting any cnut in :)
The British Army/Navy/Marines/Airforce in WWII was the best in the world. And the majority of those doing the fighting had been conscripted.

Different generation I grant you, but National Service has a proven track record during wartime.

Having said that, I can't see NS ever making a comeback. It would be political suicide. At least until Operation Persion Freedom kicks off WWIII...
 
#26
fusilier50 said:
the subject of national service has been done before.

My view remains the same. National Service either civilian or military is not viable because we could only make our own citizens abide by it. Non Britains could just give it the finger and still be queuing up for the state handouts they get for doing nothing.
All Bitish Nationals are hardworkers! And immigrants come all this way to sit on their arses and not try to better there position in this world.

And naturally law in this ocuntry does not apply to them. Our courts can't prosecute any 'non-Britain' if they commit murder don't you know! The same applies to the French Foreign Legion, they just can't get people to join.
 
#28
Trick said:
fusilier50 said:
the subject of national service has been done before.

My view remains the same. National Service either civilian or military is not viable because we could only make our own citizens abide by it. Non Britains could just give it the finger and still be queuing up for the state handouts they get for doing nothing.
All Bitish Nationals are hardworkers! And immigrants come all this way to sit on their arses and not try to better there position in this world.

And naturally law in this ocuntry does not apply to them. Our courts can't prosecute any 'non-Britain' if they commit murder don't you know! The same applies to the French Foreign Legion, they just can't get people to join.

i'm presuming you actually read all of what i put as i went on to say

fusilier50 said:
However i am in favour of immigrants and longterm unemployed working in the community rather than doing nothing and being a burden on the state. At least they would earn the benefits they are paid.

I suggested in a previous post that potential immigrants be offered citizenship in return for military service. I still think this idea should be a part of the package offered to potential immigrants.
if your going to quote me use the whole quote and dont act like a politician twisting other peoples words to suit your argument.

however you want to paint it there are large numbers of immigrants not working and claiming benefits as there are British nationals who are long term unemployed who do the same. My point was that any employment type laws on National Service would not apply to foreigners.
 
#30
Trick said:
fusilier50 said:
the subject of national service has been done before.

My view remains the same. National Service either civilian or military is not viable because we could only make our own citizens abide by it. Non Britains could just give it the finger and still be queuing up for the state handouts they get for doing nothing.
All Bitish Nationals are hardworkers! And immigrants come all this way to sit on their arses and not try to better there position in this world.

And naturally law in this ocuntry does not apply to them. Our courts can't prosecute any 'non-Britain' if they commit murder don't you know! The same applies to the French Foreign Legion, they just can't get people to join.
Bold Italics -- Thats a sweeping statement most are work shy lazy barstewards who cant/wont get a job And complain when immigrants come and take the jobs that they dont want ---

Oh yes to National Service
 
#31
Trick said:
And why wouldn't the law apply to foreigners?
i am not talking about "the law" i am talking about laws on national service. You would have to be a British Citizen in order for it to apply which is why it cant work. It would have to apply to all EU citizens and Brussels would not allow that to happen.

Even if you were able to persuade the EU to accept the idea how would you expand it to include the rest of the world.

All the models or examples i have seen only focus on British citizens and do not include foreign workers. They are covered by different laws that they have to abide by but dont effect the rest of us.
 
#32
a few years ago i worked in a bakery 110 jobs were going lazy useless locals werent interested the ones who came from the job centre were crap didn't want to work then the poles started turning up within a year all the jobs had been filled there hard grafter's most of em don't want to stay here but the money was good (to them )a lot of them had done national service and were proud of it the young lads in the army are there because they want to if you try ed to put a complete waster along side some one who wants to be there i don't think it would bring him down to there level but it would raise the national service man/woman up abit in the late 40s and 50s the youth new what war was about nowadays kids are wrapped in cotton wool a pti told me you can tell how unfit today's youth is by looking a there non existent calf muscles non existent as in never done a days graff in there life
 
#33
People who hark back to the good old days of national service fail to realise that NS ran from 45-63, less than 20 years. Ask those who took part in NS what they did. Some did fight in conflicts, the vast majority sat around and painted stones. The British army has for the greater part of it’s 350 years been a volunteer army even in WW1 it was not till the end that some were conscripted. Where would you put them? How would you train them? Have you actually thought of the numbers involved?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4182302.stm
Around 600,000 students in England and Wales have received their GCSE results.
So that’s half a million every year, so at the start of the second year you have to feed, cloth, house, and pay a million. NS was only for males. What do you do with pregnant females, defer, for how long, till all ten of her children have gone to school?

As for the “it will cut unemployment” why the F*** do you think they are raising the school leaving age. The people who want qualification are already doing them and trying hard to catch up on the secondary education that failed them over the last 5 years. Some do well when removed from the school environment. Others are a pain in the arse and cause problems for all till they are kicked out, an option that will not be available in the future.

Who will supervise this service? One adult per 25 at 600,000 = 24,000 the first year going to 48000 the second. What would they do, they cannot drive the insurance people would laugh at you. Ambulance drivers must be 21. The fire service is no longer 8 guys on a truck with water and a hard hat. Meals on wheels, two hours a day if that if you had this sort of numbers running around, then what would they do? Who would drive the meals on wheels?

This is fantasy cuckoo land and should be put in the same place as the governments other brilliant ideas like on the spot fines for drunks and take them to the cash machine to get the money.
 
#34
callum13 said:
I know for a fact i wouldnt want those youth of today * beside me in a warzone *******! we are not the best army in the world for letting any cnut in :)
Your grasp on current affairs is embarrassing you. Who do you think are dodging bullets now, 30 year olds, no the youth of today are the ones, and sowing some of the old and bold that they are as good as they were.

As one of the old and bold I would very happily have any one of the new bread covering my back.
 
#35
FrankCastle said:
callum13 said:
I know for a fact i wouldnt want those youth of today * beside me in a warzone *******! we are not the best army in the world for letting any cnut in :)
The British Army/Navy/Marines/Airforce in WWII was the best in the world. And the majority of those doing the fighting had been conscripted.

Different generation I grant you, but National Service has a proven track record during wartime.

Having said that, I can't see NS ever making a comeback. It would be political suicide. At least until Operation Persion Freedom kicks off WWIII...
The army of 44 had spent 5 years training, don't confuse conscription with NS, two very different animals. The majority of the conscripts would have volunteered. Conscription was a way of ironing out the bumps and not crippling industry.
 
#36
National service went on from 1939 to about 1963. After WW2 those that were called up were on half the pay that regular soldier got. They fought in some of the toughest conflicts going like Korea, Malaya, Suez, Kenya, Cyprus, Palestine, Greece, French Indo China and many other places and still only got half pay. You got ten weeks training a weekends leave then shipped overseas for the next 21 months. there was no six month rotation, no free phone calls home, and at times you were not even allowed to write home. They were also Officers and fighter pilots, and they took on nearly every job you could find in the forces. They where buried where died more often than not and their bodies still litter the Malaysian jungle. Yet you can ********** on here saying that they just sat on their backsides and he would not like to have them beside him if he was in action, what self opinionated twat
 
#37
W.Anchor said:
National service went on from 1939 to about 1963. After WW2 those that were called up were on half the pay that regular soldier got. They fought in some of the toughest conflicts going like Korea, Malaya, Suez, Kenya, Cyprus, Palestine, Greece, French Indo China and many other places and still only got half pay. You got ten weeks training a weekends leave then shipped overseas for the next 21 months. there was no six month rotation, no free phone calls home, and at times you were not even allowed to write home. They were also Officers and fighter pilots, and they took on nearly every job you could find in the forces. They where buried where died more often than not and their bodies still litter the Malaysian jungle. Yet you can ********** on here saying that they just sat on their backsides and he would not like to have them beside him if he was in action, what self opinionated t**t
National service did not go from 39 it started in 49. Do not confuse wartime (total war) with peace (sort of)

http://www.britisharmedforces.org/ns/nat_history.htm

The National Service Act was passed in July 1947 after considerable opposition from some Labour and Liberal politicians. The Act was to come into force at the beginning of 1949. The Act initially required a period of one year to be served in the Armed Forces followed by a liability for a possible five years in the Reserve. Financial crises, the advent of the Cold War and the Malaya emergency led to the National Service Amendment Act in December 1948, increasing the period of service to 18 months. This enabled National Servicemen to be used more efficiently and effectively, particularly overseas
Slim wanted longer (2 years) and Monty wanted shorter (12 month I think) and industry was not happy at all.

In that period 1, 132, 872 served over the 18 years so a small number to 600,000 a year now, then we could send them over seas to live.
During this period a total of 395 National Servicemen were killed in active service.
Of the million and one half men called up on reaching the age of eighteen, about a hundred and twenty-five thousand, or one in twelve served in an active theatre of operations, for which a campaign medal was awarded.
So the vast majority had a foreign holiday.

Do not misinterpret me, my father was in Palestine and only just missed Korea, his father joined up at 14 in WW1 and then as a CSM in WW2, one uncle was in North Africa as a regular, another uncle was on Eagle in the Suez and the others were in Germany, my brother in law was in Cyprus and jumped into Suez. I am fully aware of what the NS did but not all of them dodged bullets. NS was by no means popular and most saw it as a waste of time interrupting education and apprenticeships. At this time school leaving age was 14/15 and only rose to 16 in 74 so most of the NS would have been in work for 3 years by the time of call up.
 
#38
I'd ideally welcome a return to 50's Britain but we're stuck with it in its current state and only have ourselves to blame. We prevented Hitler landing in 1940 but have succumbed to 'invasion by stealth' ever since.
 
#39
Too many here are focusing on military service.

The National Service could provide other services to the nation ie book readers for the ill or similar.

It is not neccesarily about doing something that is completly useful. If the country can also embue the individual with a sense of worth and a encourage the traits that we desire in an individual ie a bit of Adv Trg whilst in Service, and development - all the stuff that SHOULD be done at school.

Go to Finland and some fo the other countries, the lads that have been conscripted are vastly different to those who may have skipped it. Finns wear their uniform all the time due to the pride they ahve at serving the country.

Perhaps a few incentives could help too, ie some sort of monetary scheme for further education.
 
#40
offog...............Even now there are a vast number of service men and women that never here a shot fired in anger. During the period of NS there was huge RN and there where five Carriers at Suez alone and some 100 other ships of the RN and this was a fraction of Navy and much of it manned by NS people. Take the RAF in 1953 they lined up on one Airfield some 300 aircraft just a fraction of what they had and most of these were flown by and maintained by NS people. So when you quote that figures saying most of them never saw action this is the reason why.
 

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