Should IS Engr Sgts be doing same jobs as the Jnr Ranks?

#1
I am after some feed back from you gents out there in the Signals as to whether or not the seniors should be performing jobs within the army that should be assigned to Junior ranks. Should we be doing more managerial type stuff and not humping and dumping like pack horses. Surely that is why we fight to go up the ranks.
 
#2
It depends.

There are far to many IS bod primadonnas out there who have the attitude 'why should I or my blokes be sweeping the garages, we're special'. However, if there's such a huge disparity between trades in the same unit - working to different agendas - then perhaps it needs a management review. Perhaps there's not enough integration between what, after all, closely related groups of IS professionals.

So, is it because there are only a handful of IS junior ranks? Give us more info boner.
 
#3
A new management review would be good. I do not think that there are a shortage of Jnrs within the trade it just seems to be abit of a waste using experienced SNCO's (not that there aren't alot of experienced Jnrs in todays army) to do the none management tasks. You are right in what you say that there are alot of primadonnas out there in the trade (the yes men and arse kissers) and maybe the corps has cocked up by allowing so many SNCO's to come across into the trade in the 1st place.
 
#4
Boner,

Are you meaning IS type work or IS SNCO`s should be doing more Tp management?

Youll find even in a Tech workshops Tech Sgts humping and dumping kit to be worked on. You getting fragged on Ops etc?

Your trade is very top heavy anyway, there can onlybe so much "management" that needs doing.

Need more info!
 
#5
boner said:
You are right in what you say that there are alot of primadonnas out there in the trade (the yes men and arse kissers) and maybe the corps has cocked up by allowing so many SNCO's to come across into the trade in the 1st place.
Point 1. I don't think primadonnas in the trade are the same as 'yes men and arse kissers'. In my experience you get guys who think that because they can fix the OC's PC they're special and feel that they're far too valuable to be carrying out 1st Line Repairs on their kit. It's a totally outrageous snobbery of the "oh - that's an operator's job" worst kind. The arsekissers and yes men are a different beast, the people who are blatantly blinkered in anything which isn't promotion-oriented and for whom the be all and end all is that recommendation for promotion (or something shorter term like a gucci tour/course/project). That's their bottom line.

Point 2. I do agree that the Corps has caused a problem by allowing (and continuing to do so until extremely recently) far too many senior ranks to move across. Especially Tech SSgts who didn't want the hassle ofgoing FofS and then saw a nice little number as IS Engrs. They are the same ones that want to be WOs in trade! Backdoor merchants of the worst kind, often like reformed smokers, bitter FofS-baiting idiots who seem to emanate jealousy out of every pore (yeah I know that sounds a bit melodramatic, but I always had a sense for drama).

Disco said:
Your trade is very top heavy anyway, there can onlybe so much "management" that needs doing.
You're absolutely spot on. I couldn't manage a p1ss up in a brewery, but I can create work out of nothing! :wink:
 
#6
Not really seen much of the IS Sgts doing the same job as the jnrs in my unit. I think some good lateral thinking has given them positions in which they have to draw upon their experience and run the place for a change (unlike my first posting where it was me as a siggy and five sgts then no one had a choice in the matter). The downside to this is the in-trade sgts move away from the technical side of the job and become little more (not belittling the position but most I know prefer the IS side than boots and haircuts) than tp sgts.


PoisonDwarf said:
There are far to many IS bod primadonnas out there who have the attitude 'why should I or my blokes be sweeping the garages, we're special'.
As an ex operator I feel that all the new lads out of the factory should be on the garage floor getting aquianted with the broom, it might make them appreciate the responsibility they have and the higher level of expectations from their peers and seniors.

CardinalSin said:
The arsekissers and yes men are a different beast, the people who are blatantly blinkered in anything which isn't promotion-oriented and for whom the be all and end all is that recommendation for promotion (or something shorter term like a gucci tour/course/project).
Couldn't agree more with that statement, but it seems like there is alot of them out there.
 
#7
Everyone is just jealous. IS Engineers are in fact Gods children. V V V clever people, playing with computers and numbers with dots or full stops in between them. All this and money too!! WOW.
 
#8
is_engr_supremo said:
Everyone is just jealous. IS Engineers are in fact Gods children. V V V clever people, playing with computers and numbers with dots or full stops in between them. All this and money too!! WOW.
And they get to worship me.
 
#9
boner said:
I am after some feed back from you gents out there in the Signals as to whether or not the seniors should be performing jobs within the army that should be assigned to Junior ranks. Should we be doing more managerial type stuff and not humping and dumping like pack horses. Surely that is why we fight to go up the ranks.
Boner,

Not at 16 Sigs are we by any chance? It has been that way for at least 6 years. With the amount of kit used by the ARRC (which has grown considerably over that period) and the size of the IS Troop, then Seniors HAVE to hump and dump. Or are you quite happy to sit back with the other 10/15 Sgts and watch 3/4 Cpls, LCpls do all the work?

If that is your idea of management then I hope I never have to work for you!!
 
#10
Darth_Fokker,

I am not at 16 Sigs and I am not one of the 10/15 Sgts that is happy to let the Cpls do the work. I work for a civilian agency along with alot of other IS Bods and find that we are miss employed doing jobs that are not for our rank range. I have no problem with humping and dumping as there is obviously within a large unit a need to muck in. It just annoys me when soldiers within trades are mis-employed.
 
#11
I work for a civilian agency along with alot of other IS Bods and find that we are miss employed doing jobs that are not for our rank range. I have no problem with humping and dumping as there is obviously within a large unit a need to muck in. It just annoys me when soldiers within trades are mis-employed.

Boner then the title of your thread is misleading.............................. Should IS Engr Sgts be doing same jobs as the Jnr Ranks? you emphasise IS Sgts this makes me believe then you have an attitude of contempt and disrespect to SNCOs of all other trades.

Most guys are miss employed at one time or another I was my first posting was 7 sigs as a telemech (telephone engineer rigger airfields Cyprus Ni etc) siggie which made it quite difficult for me on my class one since I didnt know have much experience of my trade.I got through it though and then got posted to a proper mech unit and became very proficient in my trade.

I was in TM troop 9 sigs with more SNCO than JNCOs but they all mucked in and just got on with job

Forgive me here I might be talking out of turn here but I knew Some JNCOs who were better tradesmen than the SNCOs who were above them.

If you feel that aggrieved stick in a prefference posting
 
#12
Boner then the title of your thread is misleading.............................. Should IS Engr Sgts be doing same jobs as the Jnr Ranks? you emphasise IS Sgts this makes me believe then you have an attitude of contempt and disrespect to SNCOs of all other trades.

Although your point may be very valid. I do not have an attitude of contempt/disrespect for other SNCO's of other trades. It is just that there trade does not concern me.
 
#13
If you are humping and dumping your own PC equipment, then its part of the job and should be done by all ranks when required.

Sgts and SSgt's are much more respected when they get stuck in with the lads. Leave the management to the IS Supervisors, its what they are trained for, and other seniors get stuck in operating and moving the equipment. If you don't like that then do the Supervisors course.
 
#14
I've been an IS op/Engr for a few years now and i haven't been to a single post that has enough Jnr Ranks to do all the work. I may be wrong but aren't you still classed as being in trade as a Sgt? If so, do the job you're paid to do you lazy £$%^"^&!!
 
#15
freddibnah said:
I've been an IS op/Engr for a few years now and i haven't been to a single post that has enough Jnr Ranks to do all the work. I may be wrong but aren't you still classed as being in trade as a Sgt? If so, do the job you're paid to do you lazy £$%^"^&!!
Hear hear. If a Sgt is so great at organising and motivating that doesn't need to hump'n'dump then fair play - however I don't know anyone yet who is THAT good!
 
#16
Hmmm, I've been an IS Engr as a Cpl, and as a Sgt, and although the pay was raised, and the responsibility increased, there was no real change in the job...

And to be honest I wouldn't have it any other way, I prefer to be stuck into things with the lads, and occasionally be expected to produce a report/presentation than be stuck under the mountains of paperwork/redtape which seemd to plague both the supervisory trades and rd's alike.

I spent 3 years at a DCSA posting prior to my current outing and it was exactly the same there, 3 Cpls, 1 Sgt, 0 SSgt's and numerous WO's, and they all mucked in, humping and dumping, cleaning out the stores, loading unloading wagons...

I wouldn't moan about mundane jobs, if you're worth your salt you'll get them soon enough (just listen to the IS Soups going on about how little time they get on the shop floor!).
 
#17
Lets not get too excited about this.

Rule 01. Toms do the Toms job, as directed by the senior.
Rule 10. If there are very few toms, seniors lend a hand (they dont want to look silly by failing to do a task)
Rule 11. If there are no toms- senior becomes tom.

simple, or so I reckon
It is the only way to get things done at such a place as (hex)106, Bin 100000110 sig sqn. where rule 10 applies.
 
#18
boner , so what you are saying is that once you become a snco it automatically gives you the right not to do any menial work!. in your terms please explain the term menial work!. is it
1. not emptying your bin
2.sweeping /hoovering your office
3.humping /dumping equipment that you will use on ex/ops.
4.cleaning your rifle
so what about itds? have you got a batman who does them for you?.
i really hope that you and i never cross paths! you jumped up arrsehole!
 
#19
Unfortunately, I found that as I shot up the rank structure I became aware that the "cushy" seniors actually did a bit more than I thought. Thats except for the lazy tech seniors in my troop at 21 in Wilders/ Osnabruck. They used to sit in TechCon while the juniors (including 1 still serving jug eared footballing totty!) used to clamber around getting everything set up. I got my own back once though when one when one of them ORDERED me to make him a toasty with MY toastie machine so I made him a nice Pedigree Chum one with the OC's dogfood (he took his woofer with him out into the field) He loved it and I fed him for a fortnight on Flying Fcukup with them. Anyway the moral of the story is that if you don't lead by example then the toms won't respect you, so bend your back
 
#20
To be honest I can't really see the problem with SNCO's humping and dumping (and yes I am one too!) because that's all part and parcel of getting the job done. It's bad enough with some IT/IS jobs being as scarce as they are (especially in my unit) so I therefore relish some work to get the old nogging going for a bit even if it means humping and dumping big green boxes about. Just because you've got another banana on your chest doesn't mean to say that the spine's been removed just yet!!

To add to my remark about IT/IS jobs being scarce in my unit i've just hit a 'goldmine'. I'm scaled for one Sgt (me) and two full screws. Unfortunately i'm only down to one which is still one person too many (in barracks anyway). We've now been seconded into Bde HQ where we are being utilised by the ICS team with the ongoing DII project implementation. It gives us both a good insight into a small part of the project management and also working in a nice cushy environment with civvies in civvies! (get that clothing allowance claim in). If there are any other IS Engr's out there that are in the same predicament I was in then make your voice heard and try to get 'seconded' elsewhere where your skillset and experience will come in handy especially during the busy changeover/implementation phase of this ongoing major project.
 

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