Should I get a hybrid vehicle?

My 20 year old car is on it's last legs and I'm thinking of leasing a petrol hybrid through work (specifically a Toyota Yaris).
I average around 250 miles a week, mostly urban (around 40mph) and spend about £180 a month on petrol, £21 a month on car insurance, £22 on car tax.
The lease contract will be £240 a month, all inclusive.

Is the petrol saving going to be enough to make it worth it?

Thoughts please :)
On another thread someone is wanting rid of their MOT'd old car. Accept it and no £240pm.
 
Not when the Pikeys nick the charging cable to your motor on the street/drive every night. **** knows how people living in apartment blocks will charge their motors up.
Some people can afford to live in a decent area.
Lots of charge points in the street for countries that don't keep coming up with excuses all the time.
 
Battery technology hasn't changed that much, it was the change from analogue to digital that made the phones much much smaller.
Looking at the pictures of mobile phone batteries from the early 80s seems to indicate batteries have got smaller and last longer.
 
Looking at the pictures of mobile phone batteries from the early 80s seems to indicate batteries have got smaller and last longer.
"looking at pictures" is rarely a way of objectively assessing the improvement in performance of any technology.

However, batteries have increased their energy storage density since the early 80s, as already discussed.
 
Looking at the pictures of mobile phone batteries from the early 80s seems to indicate batteries have got smaller and last longer.

They have, in another decade or so they might actually improve enough to be useful

So far this morning my fleet has done 1800 miles. By lunchtime that will be around 3000.
Over the course of the week it will be around 20,000 miles and will have a cumulative 900-1000 hours driving time
Next week is a busy week with some large events to deliver to, we will do around 28,000 miles next week
This morning my vehicles are doing runs varying from 200 to 500 miles. Not one of those runs can be achieved in an electric vehicle. The technology simply does not exist yet.

On current technology battery range is insufficient for any one of 20 odd vehicles out this morning.
Even if the range could be achieved some of our vehicles would exhaust battery life in less than three years.
I would need more vehicles on fleet to allow for charging time and individual vehicle payload would need to be re-examined. HMG has increased permissible weights for electric vehicles which is a step in the right direction

Vehicle life for us is around 5 years for a van and anything up to 12 years for an HGV.
If we went electric (assuming range can be increased enough to make it work) on current expected battery lifetime we would need to change battery packs twice on vans and up to 4 times on HGV's
The cost simply cannot work.

One day electric may make a significant environmental impact but not for a long time yet.

The best way of increasing environmental friendliness on all vehicles is to increase their lifespan
The 2nd most effective method would be to make every journey more productive. 30% of the HGV's you see on the road at any given time are empty.
That's where efforts should be focused.
 
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They have, in another decade or so they might actually improve enough to be useful

So far this morning my fleet has done 1800 miles. By lunchtime that will be around 3000.
Over the course of the week it will be around 20,000 miles and will have a cumulative 900-1000 hours driving time
Next week is a busy week with some large events to deliver to, we will do around 28,000 miles next week
This morning my vehicles are doing runs varying from 200 to 500 miles. Not one of those runs can be achieved in an electric vehicle. The technology simply does not exist yet.

On current technology battery range is insufficient for any one of 20 odd vehicles out this morning.
Even if the range could be achieved some of our vehicles would exhaust battery life in less than three years.
I would need more vehicles on fleet to allow for charging time and individual vehicle payload would need to be re-examined. HMG has increased permissible weights for electric vehicles which is a step in the right direction

Vehicle life for us is around 5 years for a van and anything up to 12 years for an HGV.
If we went electric (assuming range can be increased enough to make it work) on current expected battery lifetime we would need to change battery packs twice on vans and up to 4 times on HGV's
The cost simply cannot work on cost.

One day electric may make a significant environmental but not for a long time yet.

The best way of increasing environmental friendliness on all vehicles is to increase their lifespan
The 2nd most effective method would be to make every journey more productive. 30% of the HGV's you see on the road at any given time are empty.
That's where efforts should be focused.

They are not quite there for commercial vehicles? However they are suitable for most domestic use.

HGV will be there eventully
Good News About Electric Trucks Coming From Oregon & Switzerland | CleanTechnica
 
Note the word some electric cars are supposed to be the future for all
Did you worry about pikeys nicking your fuel when cars first started to have widespread use? Or did we adapt?
 
"looking at pictures" is rarely a way of objectively assessing the improvement in performance of any technology.

However, batteries have increased their energy storage density since the early 80s, as already discussed.
Batteries are smaller and last long then?
 
They are not quite there for commercial vehicles? However they are suitable for most domestic use.

HGV will be there eventully
Good News About Electric Trucks Coming From Oregon & Switzerland | CleanTechnica
Nothing in that article addresses the issue that Jagman2 raised about battery life (as opposed to battery autonomy).
Despite increases in energy density, there hasn't been much progress made on the service life of Li-ion batteries and they still wear out at more or less the same rate of 500 charge cycles.
 
Frankly, if I had to choose a hybrid route, I would go the PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) route. Why? Yes, it's slightly more expensive, but it also allows for a much longer EV only range. Do you know that some vehicles like the Chevy Volt/ Opel Ampera (not sold in EU anymore, after GM pulled out) actually have a mode which automatically starts the engine if it hasn't been in use for a few months? Just to recycle the engine oil and move it around a bit...the Volt has a range of around 60miles for which most people covers their commute, even on highways, so most of the time they never actually have the engine running as the EV motor is big enough - something like 150hp alone - to keep it going.
 
Frankly, if I had to choose a hybrid route, I would go the PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) route. Why? Yes, it's slightly more expensive, but it also allows for a much longer EV only range. Do you know that some vehicles like the Chevy Volt/ Opel Ampera (not sold in EU anymore, after GM pulled out) actually have a mode which automatically starts the engine if it hasn't been in use for a few months? Just to recycle the engine oil and move it around a bit...the Volt has a range of around 60miles for which most people covers their commute, even on highways, so most of the time they never actually have the engine running as the EV motor is big enough - something like 150hp alone - to keep it going.
My neighbour had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which he's just changed for a diesel BMW. The advertised electric range of 32 miles should have covered his commute, but didn't and he reckoned he was getting about 18mpg.

There is another story about the time he had a panel dinged and it took Mitsubishi 4 months to repair it because they had to send it to Belgium or somewhere to disconnect the battery before working on it. But, I'm sure that's not typical.
 
My neighbour had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which he's just changed for a diesel BMW. The advertised electric range of 32 miles should have covered his commute, but didn't and he reckoned he was getting about 18mpg.

There is another story about the time he had a panel dinged and it took Mitsubishi 4 months to repair it because they had to send it to Belgium or somewhere to disconnect the battery before working on it. But, I'm sure that's not typical.
You should always downgrade the advertised range, especially if done on that shitty old NEDC test cycle which was so far removed from reality, it was unbelievable. The new WLTC cycle is far more realistic, so vehicles certified to this one should be more consistent with what actually happens in the real world. That said, there will always be some manufacturers underquoting or over-quoting the figures.

And in London (and a few other cities elsewhere), unless you want to pay daily congestion charge, you better be in an EV/HEV/PHEV/Fuel Cell car..though, why the hell would want to drive in London though, it's a nightmare and you would be better off getting public transport. I only ever get into an Uber car or something if it's super late at night and I know the traffic is down and I am knackered.
 
Nothing in that article addresses the issue that Jagman2 raised about battery life (as opposed to battery autonomy).
Despite increases in energy density, there hasn't been much progress made on the service life of Li-ion batteries and they still wear out at more or less the same rate of 500 charge cycles.
The point is, one day, it will be good enough for his needs.
 
Nothing in that article addresses the issue that Jagman2 raised about battery life (as opposed to battery autonomy).
Despite increases in energy density, there hasn't been much progress made on the service life of Li-ion batteries and they still wear out at more or less the same rate of 500 charge cycles.
Battery life is typically about 10 yrs, give or take. And now the they have been going into other uses, like power banks after being refurbed.
 
not being an expert on this ...but ...could reactive braking not be used to charge the towed car battery... obviously with much modification. as I said , I haven't given this much thought... probably stick with the old Smarty behind the van...(if it passes the MOT
According to this informative article the problems with current electric cars are that the electric motors cannot be mechanically disengaged unlike an engine and that regenerative braking is not possible when powered down. Front wheel drive electric cars can be towed on a dolly. When will the car companies make a flat-towable electric car?
 
They have, in another decade or so they might actually improve enough to be useful

So far this morning my fleet has done 1800 miles. By lunchtime that will be around 3000.
Over the course of the week it will be around 20,000 miles and will have a cumulative 900-1000 hours driving time
Next week is a busy week with some large events to deliver to, we will do around 28,000 miles next week
This morning my vehicles are doing runs varying from 200 to 500 miles. Not one of those runs can be achieved in an electric vehicle. The technology simply does not exist yet.

On current technology battery range is insufficient for any one of 20 odd vehicles out this morning.
Even if the range could be achieved some of our vehicles would exhaust battery life in less than three years.
I would need more vehicles on fleet to allow for charging time and individual vehicle payload would need to be re-examined. HMG has increased permissible weights for electric vehicles which is a step in the right direction

Vehicle life for us is around 5 years for a van and anything up to 12 years for an HGV.
If we went electric (assuming range can be increased enough to make it work) on current expected battery lifetime we would need to change battery packs twice on vans and up to 4 times on HGV's
The cost simply cannot work on cost.

One day electric may make a significant environmental but not for a long time yet.

The best way of increasing environmental friendliness on all vehicles is to increase their lifespan
The 2nd most effective method would be to make every journey more productive. 30% of the HGV's you see on the road at any given time are empty.
That's where efforts should be focused.
The big question in that is are the journeys really necessary? Not from the immediate needs of the business you work for; more from a philosophical view.

The change to BEVs is going to happen; Those businesses whose business models can’t or won’t adapt won’t survive.
 

crustyrusty

On ROPS
On ROPs
Just bought a 6 year old Toyota Yaris Hybrid from a little old Lady, my Mother.
A few dents as mum likes hitting the garden wall, only done 27k miles and runs well.
Good mpg and stop/start but a bit sluggish but will do the commute well.
 

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