Should cowards be allowed to rejoin?

#1
I have been told of several people (one an officer) who left the TA because they didn't want to be mobilised to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Some of these people have rejoined now the compulsary mobilisations have stopped.
Should it be allowed?
 
#2
Why would you want to rejoin ? Who says the compulosry moblisations have stopped ? How could you serve
under one of these guys .Know a sgt who is being forced out over his reluctance to be moblised .Allegdly may
just be final nail in his careers coffin as unpopular with headshed actually unpopular with most people :) .
 
#3
And when did the compulsory mobilisations stop exactly?

How can you possibly know why they left?

Even if they left because they were scared of mobilisation how do you know they haven't changed their ways and now wish to do their bit? Again, I would ask when compulsory mobilisations stopped - answer: they haven't and the amount of publicity being given to Afghanistan and continued TA presence in Iraq suggest that you are talking out of the wrong orifice.

Mods - please note for once I haven't accused a new poster of being a journo. I'll let someone else have that pleasure - especially as so many of icarus1859's posts start with, "I have been told that..." Oops :oops:
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
We only had one chap leave - and that was well before the compulsory mobs started. He didn't want to get involved with Iraq as, in his opinion, the war was illegal. Fair play to him, he voted with his feet, and we still invite him to Socials.

As to anyone wanting to come back - it must be on the proviso that they know the rules, and that they are liable for mobilisation to wherever the Army sends them It's not a democracy, whatever the politicos think!
 
#7
My unit apparently operates a policy of you serve until your contract time is up (eg. three years), you can be excused from attending training, but they will still call you back if you have time left on your contract. Happened with a private who was with us, he had done a year into a three year contract and asked to be let out, the boss said he would be excused from training, but if they ever needed him for the next two years he was liable to be called back.

Two things were made very clear when I joined 1) I *will* do three years and 2) I *will*, not may, be deployed. The recruiter repeated it several times, and it was repeated several times on our TAFS/Look at Life w/e. Great fun heh.
 

scaryspice

LE
Moderator
#8
RB

While sympathising with their stance, I think you'll find they can't actually legally do that - if you want to leave then you can leave - I believe that they are obliged to discharge a soldier at his request. Anyway let's be honest - how much use would the Pte in question have bgeen if called back?

Scary
 
G

Goku

Guest
#9
As a crow my opinion might not be considered valid, but here’s what I think.

If someone resists being mobilised because either their family life might suffer (wife says she’ll leave if your mobilised, parent is dieing, etc) or they know for a fact they’ll lose their job, then those people should be fully supported by the TA and shouldn’t be forced out.

If someone resists being mobilised for any other reason (maybe they’re afraid, maybe the TA is just a hobby for them, etc), then these people are in the TA for the wrong reasons and should leave.
However you could look at this type of TA soldier as still having valuable skills and he could be used solely for training the ranks beneath him. If that’s how you choose to look at that type of TA soldier then let him stay but don’t let him lead, how can you ask the lower ranks to follow someone who’s not committed?

When push comes to shove, if you’re called up then you do as you’re told. We defend democracy, we don’t practise it.
 
#10
Served with one guy who had left hadnt attended for 9 months and then found himself in iraq . Was definatly
a bit out of his depth . They stuck him on the main gate to sort of acclimitise him didnt find the mre bombs funny at all
not my idea at all . But at the end of 2 weeks seemed happier .
 
#12
Compulsory mobs haven't stopped, they're just conducted a little more 'intelligently'.

Depends why they left, if for valid reasons, work/family etc, then I don't see an issue. If they left because they didn't want to soldier, then I'd say it was up to the unit to make a judgement call and 'encourage' them suitably.

I know of a few SNCOs and a couple of JNCOs who left. Some cited very sensible reasons to leave (one didn't want to loose a very substantial yearly bonus). He'd be welcomed back and has been invited several times, one of the SNCOs just didn't want to get called up. Needless to say he hasn't been asked back or invited to any functions.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#13
I've got to say I've never heard of anyone being 'too afraid' to go on ops: that strikes me as utter BS. On the other hand, I know a number of people who were afraid to be mobilised because of the effects that it would have on their career or family, which is entirely justifiable. In the past, as we've discussed interminably, people joined the TA with little to no expectation of ever being mobilised unless the Soviets started to kick off, and a lot of the older and bolder have found compulsory mobilisation something of a shock.
 
#14
woody said:
But at the end of 2 weeks seemed happier .
He probably thought camp would be over soon!

I'm amused to think that anyone (Icarus) would call someone a coward without being able to back it up... but since accuracy isn't a strong feature in his post we shouldn't really expect anything else.
 
#15
Look, it states quite clearly in Commando/Battle Picture Library that a coward must rejoin. Usually this will be under an assumed name, possibly using the documents of the person killed next to him on a train/in a jeep/on a troopship. He will then be recognised by a former colleague just before going on ops but will manage to get into the front line - usually after slapping a couple of RMP. He will then do something truly brave and be killed before receiving a posthumous award. The last frame shows him being accepted into the panoply of war-heroes in his family tradition...

Catch yourself on Icarus. If you don't think they should be back then why? If it's because they apparently bottled it then front up to them and ask why they PVR'd and then rejoined when they thought the crisis had passed. If it is because you think they are in some way inferior beings then grow up!!
 
#16
heh,

At the end of the day you're a soldier, even if it is part-time and should understand that you will eventually be called upon to do it for real. One of our Sgt Major's gave a wonderful speech on my TAFS which scared off a few potentional recruits, involved being cannon fodder etc etc.
 
#17
the cowardly swine should be shot at dawn,however on a serious note you would be surprised how many regs get out of ops,and some crows who honestly thought they would be home every weekend to see mummy,i tell you
 
#18
Look, if you take the money, you should do the job. So if these people have avoided mobilisation, they should be welcomed back, but on the proviso that they will not earn their bonus/wages.
 
#19
Oh dear, looks like I touched some nerves there huh.

Firstly, to the clowns who think I'm a 'journo' - wake up, stop thinking the world is out to get you, you really aren't that important. Stop hiding behind your curtains and pretending you are interesting :roll:

Secondly as for talking out of the wrong orifice - why? Compulsary mobilisations have slowed almost to a stop reference Iraq, at least with our lot anyway. On Telic 5 people volunteered, I didn't know anyone who was compulsary mobilised after Telic 4. (thats infantry BTW).

I'll tell you why I can call people cowards...because I joined the TA not actually expecting to get called up, but when the call came I went even though my boss and my unit said they would back me up if I wanted to stay at home. I have 3 children and my youngest was 6 months old at the time and born with a disability - my wife worked full-time and everyone knew she would struggle like hell on her own. I was brought home for a couple of weeks on compassionate leave when the baby was rushed into hospital but then went straight back even though army welfare and my OC said they could easily sort it so I didn't have to go back. My wife almost suffered a breakdown because of the stress of me being away and coping with 3 kids, 2 of whom were hospitalised while I was away. I lost out on promotion at work and started back under people that I used to manage.

But I still went because my integrity said that I take the money from them so I should uphold my end of the deal. It comes down to self respect and honouring a conviction, not being a weasel and wriggling out of my commitment.

I think I'm qualified to hand out white feathers, simple as that. If you don't want a white feather then don't join the army and don't be a snivveling little weasel who refuses to do his duty.

And I for one do not want to follow an officer who is a coward and too scared to put his balls on the line. He openly admits he was scared to go because he didn't want to get killed, he wanted all the benefits of the army without having to do anything.

Oh and my posts start with "I have been told..." because thats how I get my information. I suppose some of you were born with a fountain of knowledge shoved up your arrse.

Leftie PC idiots, cowards and workshy keyboard hero's should be put in a field and used as figure 11's.
 
#20
icarus1859 said:
Oh dear, looks like I touched some nerves there huh.

Firstly, to the clowns who think I'm a 'journo' - wake up, stop thinking the world is out to get you, you really aren't that important. Stop hiding behind your curtains and pretending you are interesting :roll:

Secondly as for talking out of the wrong orifice - why? Compulsary mobilisations have slowed almost to a stop reference Iraq, at least with our lot anyway. On Telic 5 people volunteered, I didn't know anyone who was compulsary mobilised after Telic 4. (thats infantry BTW).

I'll tell you why I can call people cowards...because I joined the TA not actually expecting to get called up, but when the call came I went even though my boss and my unit said they would back me up if I wanted to stay at home. I have 3 children and my youngest was 6 months old at the time and born with a disability - my wife worked full-time and everyone knew she would struggle like hell on her own. I was brought home for a couple of weeks on compassionate leave when the baby was rushed into hospital but then went straight back even though army welfare and my OC said they could easily sort it so I didn't have to go back. My wife almost suffered a breakdown because of the stress of me being away and coping with 3 kids, 2 of whom were hospitalised while I was away. I lost out on promotion at work and started back under people that I used to manage.

But I still went because my integrity said that I take the money from them so I should uphold my end of the deal. It comes down to self respect and honouring a conviction, not being a weasel and wriggling out of my commitment.

I think I'm qualified to hand out white feathers, simple as that. If you don't want a white feather then don't join the army and don't be a snivveling little weasel who refuses to do his duty.

And I for one do not want to follow an officer who is a coward and too scared to put his balls on the line. He openly admits he was scared to go because he didn't want to get killed, he wanted all the benefits of the army without having to do anything.

Oh and my posts start with "I have been told..." because thats how I get my information. I suppose some of you were born with a fountain of knowledge shoved up your arrse.

Leftie PC idiots, cowards and workshy keyboard hero's should be put in a field and used as figure 11's.

Applause for the big man, christ you're hard core

You sir, sound like a twat

Get over yourself, one tour, I'm assuming, does not give you any high ground. You sound like a gobby crow.
 

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