Should Britan now Abolish the Welfare State?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by AIR FILTER, Apr 22, 2011.

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  1. With reference to so many people bitching on about welfare claimants in this country today, together with the Governments virtual "declaration of war" on people who claim them.

    The question is ..... should we now abolish our welfare state in its entirety if it has now become such a big problem for society as a whole?
  2. Trans-sane

    Trans-sane LE Book Reviewer

    It needs to be seriously re-thought. When it was set up it was a safety net for those had feck all. Now its become an almost universal entitlement and a damn good earner for those that can play the system. Luxaries such a massive plasma screen TV, 2-3 foreign holidays a year, a new car every couple of years (taxed and insured as well? Not sure about motorbility) and still having a good load of disposable income just isn't fair on those working their tits off in low-paid jobs that can't afford any of that themselves.
  3. The idea of the benefits system is to act as a safety net, not a hammock. It is designed for those between jobs who have been made redundant and having contributed to the "pot" are entitled some money back. Unfortunately in reality, this is not the case. There are many cases of people being accomodated in houses costing the taxpayer £6k a month, and some even being purpose built. The reforms etc have been discussed here ad nauseum, but on the subject of the abolition of the welfare state, it has to be a no from me.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. No it shouldn't be abolished.
    What it does need is to be managed a whole lot better.
    Those who are genuine with their health problems and need assistance then they have my good wishes, as for those that don't this is very simple just do one fat arse and get a job !

    Kind regards,
    • Like Like x 3
  5. I basically agree with you on this. I have used the safety net of dole just once in my ex forces working life, then for about a week only. During that time, I would have been happy to have been put to work for a few hours daily, earning my dole on road sweeping or anything else that helped the local community. I was also off the dole quickly by taking any job that paid a wage..any job, I wouldn't have turned my nose up at any.

    There lies the problem nowadays, people are less than willing to do a day's work for a day's pay when they can get paid for doing fuckall. FFS, there is a simple answer to that.
  6. No not abolished though it should be slashed and burnt right back and with massive reforms implemented. Get alot of those who don't deserve it off it , I don't really care if they starve to death because they can't be bothered to dfind work. Plow the money back into the system to provide more help to those who genuinly deserve to be on benefits.

    Slash or completely abolish some of those aspects of benefits that are not working. Basically prevent people using it as some sort of income and get back to them using it as emergency funding, Unless of course they are completely unable to work. Extra funding that is raised from cutting benefit off from those who don't deserve it could be used to pay for a much more in depth medical assesment ensuring incapacity benefit isn't misused by some.
  7. As i understand it (and please correct me if i am wrong) a claimant has to legally qualify for each benefit he or she is entitled to as laid down by the law of the land, some of these claim forms are quite exhausting to fill in and can take months to process in some cases whilst evidence is being gathered to prove entitlement.

    The state does not dish out money automatically by return of post.

    The portrayal by society of "millionaire lifestyles" on offer is just a little hyped up i fear.
  8. I guess i have been very lucky in my working life , i have been made redundant countless times errrr 5 in a row thinking about it call me mr lucky !!.
    Every time i was always fortunate to find "something" just to keep me going until something better turned up.
    I did "sign on" once as i couldnt start a new job for 2 weeks and as such was out of work, the jobcentre or whatever they are called didnt know what to do with me as i had a job to start and couldnt give me any money!!
    What grips me about the benefit system as has been mentioned already is that it is a safety net, a get you by, it certainly isnt a ******* lifestyle choice :pissedoff: .
    I really hope they do something about it although it is a mammoth task to sort and wait until all the human rights lot kick off if they havent already !
    One of the other things that does get my liver fizzing is folk that say "there is no work" well actually shitlips stop looking in the job centre(last place to look for work) and start banging on doors and actually try for once, i,m ranting now so will shut up !

    Kind regards

    R M
  9. Yes and no , The claim is long but usually processed within an hour period ( i.e the the data is obtained, tends to be yes no answers to be honest), Personaly myself I have never been required to provide evidence so I don't know if the evidence itself is provided via a thrid party (Inland Revene) Never known it to take more than a few weeks to be done tbh.

    The system is not that hard for someone to abuse if they are determined enough to.
  10. My bold , once they know how to work the system its a piece of piss for them isnt it, i,m sure there are forums telling you what you can claim and how to claim it?
    I know the media love to hype this stuff up coz it gets the taxpayer wound up but there are people out there that do **** all and live a very easy life maybe not millionaire but certainly a ******* easy one.

    Kind regards
  11. UK spends c.£350 billion per year on health & welfare. The post-war welfare state has essentially bankrupted the country - this level of spend necessitates bleeding the productive economy white and is the reason for the sky-high tax take. Apart from the crippling cost (and spiralling debt burden), the welfare state has also had the unfortunate effect of removing the basic survival impetus from millions of people - UK now has somewhere over 8 million "economically inactive" adults, plus millions more living off the general tax take in some way.

    As the current round of "cuts" are only slightly slowing the increase in the rate of state spending, UK's debt continues to spiral. Slashing a few million off defence and grabbing a few million more in tax ignore the monsdter in the room - the size of the untouched NHS and welfare budgets.

    Perhaps it is time to ruthlessly pare back the welfare state - maybe reduce all benefits down to food stamps and workfare, ration NHS to any that contribute to their own unhealthiness, compel people to invest in their own pensions and health insurance, focus resources on the young/old/genuinely helpless.

    It will take a generation or two to force people to take responsibility for their own lives, but the alternative is the country sinking into an economic black hole.

  12. Not entirely true, you can walking into a job centre and sign on that week. I know because I did. I had to answer a couple of questions but nothing too probing. At the same time I was handed paperwork to complete to ensure that my mortgage would be paid but only after 13 weeks on benifits.

    It took me 4 months of being unemployed before I got up the courage to walk in and I last for one payment.

    As for the "milionaire lifestyles" they may not be milionaires but the guy across the road gets basic of £64 a week plus £10 for being alcohol dependant, he also gets a carers allowance of £260 a month due to needing help and (if what he told me is true) around £300 a month disability allowance, he then gets his council tax paid of £96 a month, his motgage paid upto £400 a month. Then there's the added benifits of free perscriptions, free eye tests, free dental care. He is entitled to help with gas & electric although I believe these are classed as emergancy grants.

    If his kids still lived with him his benefits would be even higher, child allowance and the like.

    His only disability is that he's work shy which he readily admits - afterall why should he get out of bed to work every day when he only needs to get out once a fortnight to sign on?
  13. You do realise the NHS is part of the Welfare State? Would you happily see the end of medical treatment for free?
  14. Set clearly defined rules, if you are disabled then there is one package for you. Single mother? Again one package, and so on. A lot of the waste is employing countless people to job the same job (badly), clarifying the system and simplification will be difficult but it will help in the long run.

    Instead of threats use a support method, encourage people to want to work. Provide training in realistic courses with jobs at the end, even public jobs if needed. Provide better childcare facilities for those that want to work, I mean who in their right mind would work for minimum wage only to be worse off than if sitting on the dole???

    Yes, I know the welfare state is a safety net and it should stay as that. Just remember if they do get rid of the welfare state, don't go thinking you're going to get a tax break as that will not happen. You will then have to pay further through private care systems, and what about those that are at the bottom? I for one do not like seeing little children running around covered in dirt with very little (yes I'm a softy at heart), I would prefer that my tax money supported and improved them.

    Feel free to rip this apart (would like a normal discussion, before the normal plebs have a bitch fight ^^)
  15. Isn't the mortgage payment time limited and interest only?