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Should ACF Instructors have a MOD 90?

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#1
:roll:
Hi me again. My friend in the Air Training Corps gets a MOD 90.
We in the ACF get some pants white ID card which looks more like a Tina Turner fan club card. It also says on the back does not allow access to MOD installations only means of ID.

This also excludes us from any discounts at Military Museums and the like.

Now before you all kill me I am not wanting a MOD 90 to pretend we are Soldiers because everyone knows we are not. But as a Rupert I might want to visit an Officers Mess or enjoy some of the benefits others do.

Given we work with 12 to 18 year old kids and try to make them better citizens could we at least be treated a part of the Army, we do after all provide you with most of your recruits. I assure you working with Children within a Military frame work is tough, we do not have Queens Regs or a Guardroom to help us and the Troops are not paid.

I often get the impression (sometimes we do not help it) of being the Army's poor relative. I wonder how many serving Soldiers out there would want to do our job?

We now come under the same chain of command that regulars do. We report to 145 Brigade at Aldershot who inturn are part of 4 Div.

It is great to have a voice and thaks to ARRSE we now do. Unlike some my Troop are behind you boys 100% I have recently read out on Parade extracts from Soldier Magazine showing what brave deeds have been done by our Troops in the name of freedom.

Keep your heads down and come home safe.

Birddog.
 
#2
Most of the TA do not get ID cards, although this is to be changed. The CGS appear to be allowing this for a trial period only before the final decision is made. I think if the ACF were to get MOD90 it would cause even more upset considering the TA got mobilised fought a war and still were'nt allowed to keep hold of their MOD90's.
 
#3
Birddog said:
:roll:
Hi me again. My friend in the Air Training Corps gets a MOD 90.
We in the ACF get some pants white ID card which looks more like a Tina Turner fan club card. It also says on the back does not allow access to MOD installations only means of ID.
The MOD90 says exactly the same, it does not give you automatic rights to MOD establishments.

This also excludes us from any discounts at Military Museums and the like.

Now before you all kill me I am not wanting a MOD 90 to pretend we are Soldiers because everyone knows we are not. But as a Rupert I might want to visit an Officers Mess or enjoy some of the benefits others do.
You just admitted your not a soldier so why do you think you qualify to benefit from the rights and perks of a soldier?

Given we work with 12 to 18 year old kids and try to make them better citizens could we at least be treated a part of the Army, we do after all provide you with most of your recruits. I assure you working with Children within a Military frame work is tough, we do not have Queens Regs or a Guardroom to help us and the Troops are not paid.
My last unit worked exstensivly with ACF and provided a lot of resources. From my experience the Army does invest a lot and go out of its way to provide extra facilities for you to utilise and release soldiers from their duties to help organise events and exercises.

I often get the impression (sometimes we do not help it) of being the Army's poor relative. I wonder how many serving Soldiers out there would want to do our job?
Budgets come into play, the Army is not exactly dripping in money. no I wouldnt want your job but I know that regular soldiers bolster and run many ACF`s, also I have spoken with many and I know the kids that do cadets have a really good time and enjoy the training you give. Is that not the reward you are after?

Do you need a MOD 90? no not really, maybe better support from your local regular units and the odd invite to the mess :) .
 
#4
NO
 
#5
The TA system is subjective to the rules of your unit and in some cases brigade, or so it seems.

For instance, to get a MOD90 in the first place you must first ask to fill in the relevant paperwork, unless your unit's admin takes care of it.

Next you need a reason to want to keep it. A reasonable request as it's not a something to be losing.

Some are issued it on a 'as needed' basis. Others get to keep theirs. The system doesn't seem to be set up too unfairly.

As for the ACF. You're adult instructors of a youth organisation. Not a pre military service.

If you would like access to relevant messes then go on a course. Otherwise, like the TA, go down to the pub with your friends.

If you served you should be able to get relevant discounts anyway.
 
#6
Thanks all, some interesting and positive feedback, i have not wanted to offend anyone nor imply we are entitled to the same rights as regulars.

It was just a suggestion given our current form of ID tends not to be accepted by banks and the like as a valid ID because no one really understands us.
 
#7
As mentioned before, the MoD 90 doesn't grant you access to military establishments unless you have a valid reason to be there. If you are invited to an establishment.... you won't need a Mod 90.

As for popping into the officers mess? You aren't a mess member so you aren't entitled to mess facilities. If you were a visiting officer you'd have to be booked in to the mess before you are offered the facilities and pay for them. If you were invited to be an honoury mess member then you'd be able to book in at the guardroom as such and would be escorted to the mess. But you have no right to use the mess. It's their 'club', they pay for it and like it or not, if they don't want a cadets officer in, there's noithing you can do about it.

So it would seem you don't need an MoD 90 then doesn't it?
 
#8
Birddog said:
It was just a suggestion given our current form of ID tends not to be accepted by banks and the like as a valid ID because no one really understands us.
You should be issued a MoD 90 as a form of ID in a bank???? What do the rest of the world do when they go to a bank?

If you have any real case for being issued an ID then by all means put forward your case. But all the bo11ocks about messes, and banks???

You'll have to sit down and face it..... you are not really part of the Army,
 
#9
I am a retired ex Regular Army & TA

TA Officers, Warrant Officers or Soldiers do not carry MOD90 ID Cards as a matter of course, while some do for valid reasons.

I am however a Honoury Member of my Local Mess, where I can book in at the camp gate, checked against the Invited Members list and directed (not escorted) to the Mess. ACF adult instructers are regularly invited.

I think you are on a hiding to nothing trying to change the system for your own ends. The MOD90 IS NOT intended as a form of ID for anything other than Military Identification.
 
#10
Birddog said:
: we do after all provide you with most of your recruits.
Birddog.

This statement is Pooh. Sorry but it is.

TA soldiers are actually not allowed to take form MoD 90 unless they are going on a course or, I believe, overseas deployments. This is from HQ Land - seems pants to me. I can draw a truckload of HE ammunition, be issued live rounds and plastic explosives, but not carry my ID card?

Reality check to Land, please.
 
#11
I never realised that the TA do not get MOD 90s. That just seems plan bizzare.

On that note forget my last if the TA do not get them then the Cadets must be just below the Woman's Auxillary Balloon Corps in line for issue.

On another note thanks for the advice, I may not have put my point across like i intended but given the poor TA are without then I should consider myself lucky to have what we have.

Thanks and take it easy.

Birddog out. :oops:
 
#12
Birddog said:
It was just a suggestion given our current form of ID tends not to be accepted by banks and the like as a valid ID because no one really understands us.
Actually the MOD90 is an not "official" form of ID in a monetary sense, The only official forms are passports and the driving license.

I have had my MOD90 refused a couple times when proving who I am in regard to credit card payments (random checks) even though it has my mugshot and a copy of my signature.

:D
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#13
Given that all the ACF staff are civilians, unless they hold a commision, NO.
 
#14
ACF Officers do get issued MOD90s, the Instructors i.e SIs SSIs SMIs RSMIs and Under Officers(Officer Cadets) get AF E7571 the official ACF ID card, Allthough I heard that this practise was to be discontinued. As for the TA it is not the fact that they do not get MOD90s they do 'have' them but they are kept by units centrally unless required.

Why does a ACF Member need a MOD90 for anyway? the ACF ID provides the means of ID to get where you need to go whilst on duty on weekends, Annual Camps and courses. The card Has a photo, Number, Rank and name everything the MOD90 does. It serves its purpose very well - there is only one factor that an ACF instructor would want a MOD90 - Walt Mitty 'look what i have got' to their mates down the pub.
 

FBW

Old-Salt
#15
just a quick one

TA do now get issued MOD 90 now

you just have to re-sign for it once a year though to prove you havent lost it

this has only come in though within the last 12 months

before that, you were allowed to have it if you were on duty IE camp or weekends but lazy admin staff didnt like giving it out :roll:

even had a SPSI once try telling me i didnt need it to drive miltary vehicles , i told him nicely "where to go" :roll:

as to ACF staff needing one i cant see the point myself they do get ACF ID card, it just needs to be more recognizable
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
There should be a single form of ID....the MOD 90 for reasons of familiarity.

ACF members did used to be issued with a MOD90 with the word CADETS stamped across it.

They should go back to that, there is nothing wrong with a MOD 90 clearly amendment to show that the holder is a cardboard cut out soldier rather than a real one.

If anyone thinks a mod90 is a great thing to have then think again, it is only a bit of plastic not a phallic enhancement.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#17
maninblack said:
If anyone thinks a mod90 is a great thing to have then think again, it is only a bit of plastic not a phallic enhancement.
It works for me, my c*ck was only twelve inches long before I got my MOD90 :D
 
#18
The TA will soon be able to retain their MOD 90s.

ACF Officers hold Queen's Commissions and are, therefore, subject to miliraty law at all times (just like Regular and TA officers).

ACF Adult Instructors are not subject to military law unless they are on duty.

It seems to me, therefore, sensible and practical that ACF officers should be able to retain their MOD 90s, but Adulkt Instructors should have them only when on duty.
 
#19
smoother_mover said:
ACF Adult Instructors are not subject to military law unless they are on duty.
eh ? thats a first, ACF instructors SI, SSI, SMI are subject to internal discliplinary regs NOT military law, only the Officers are.

i personally have no objections to MOD90 but i have used my current ACF ID without any problems and have used it to get discounts in Military surplus shops and reduced or free entry to museums, it just how you talk to the museum/shop staff, the card just pushes the door open a little bit the rest is up to you.
also if you have a reason to be in a military base then no problems, ID cards in some bases is about as much use a chocolate fireguard, some of the fences in some bases is either non existant or just a mere single wire, some have open public access during certain times of the year.
 
#20
Some camps have MOD Plod or MPGS who are a pain in the arrse!

I like the US Forces idea of having Retired Services ID Cards to access facilities such as PX & Messes as well as forces discounts.

Someone sells such a card ! @ http://www.britishveterans.org.uk/

I think we should give them it for free.....

- Never catch on here I think....
 
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