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should abortion laws change

#1
Should abortion laws change?

Do you think the upper limit for abortion should be lowered?
Doctors at the British Medical Association conference have voted against reducing the upper limit for abortion from 24 to 20 weeks.

Some politicians and medics have questioned the current time limit as medical advances have boosted the survival chances of premature babies.

source bbc.co.uk

everyone as there own reasons making these decisions .
but do you think it is a lady right to have a abortion or should the gentleman have a say too
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
No, leave it alone.

No good ever comes from fiddling with things and the ones who want a change just want to make it harder to obtain an abortion.

Perhaps if scrapes were more easily available we would have a few less of the chavish little creatures around.
 
#4
Rather then change the abortion laws would it be better, to pay out less for mothers having children, thus encourage children only within a situation where the parent / parents could afford to pay for the upkeep of the child? We could still have some type of "welfare" care system, but at this time, we have a situation within the UK where people look at Children as a way of earning money?
 
#5
Go on Borestudent, cut and paste the whole article! You know you want to.... Another question designed purely to elicit a response. Borestudent at her best....

I can'resist saying something though:

Of course a man can have his say, you know he can. In law, however, there is nothing he can do. A law that would allow men to legally dictate what a healthy woman should do with her body/unborn child is never going to happen for obvious reasons.....

You use the word abortion and then ask whether the 24 week limit should be lowered. It's an abortion, not a premature birth! What are you expecting the surgeon to say? 'Well, if she doesn't want it I could ask around the ward...' !?

edited to add a word
 
#7
In the Arty, Ammo, Flight, and various other bits of our tiny world, Premature and Abort have rather more painful results in opposite to birth. A premature in a gun system is 99.99999% certain to cause injury and an Abort order may halt this. :?

As there are so many children dying of poverty (there is a thread - can't be arrsed to link it) why not allow more abortions, cut IVF funding entirely and share out the spare children? :twisted:

I don't have kids, don't like kids and have a wife with similar views. It's a missed workforce situation - they used to be in mines and chimneys - now it's ASBOs and Toys R Us. :evil: So, more abotions, less kids :lol:

Law student, why not take a course in English prior to your machinations in Law then you'd find out about spellin'(sic), apostrophy(sic), syntax and the difference between there, their and they're. And stop asking us your homework questions. There, there! :wink:
 
#8
In Germany women on welfare are entiteled to free contraceptives. The idea behind it is that it is cheaper for the government to pay for one pack of the pill every month than to pay additional welfare for a bunch of nippers.
Also, contraceptives (condoms) are freely available in any supermarket, without age restriction. Teenage girls can get a prescription for the "pill after" without having their parents notified, the same applies for other contraceptives.
Sexual eduaction (which includes lessons about contraceptives) is a mandatory part of biology class in German schools.

Abortions are, while not legal, officially tolerated within the first three months of a pregnancy, as long as the woman underwent counseling by a third party (about adoption, government aid to raise children etc., the birthrate in Germany is actually very low, which will bring demoscopic problems in future, too many old people, not enough young ones) and brings a certificate about it.

AFAIK, the number of teenage pregnancies in Germany is much lower than in Ireland, the UK or the US.

Jan

Edit for typo
 
#10
Yes we did, and as it's in the news today , we're discussing it again :)
 
#11
PartTimePongo said:
Yes we did, and as it's in the news today , we're discussing it again :)
I wasn't implying that it shouldn't be discussed again, merely that it had been well covered & I supplied the link for people to view! Repetition of themes on here is hardly a new thing! :wink:
 
#12
Yes Borestudent so come back and discuss - for bloody once! Come on, you can start your rehabilitation from leper troll right here, on this very thread, which you started.... If you suffer from ADD then I apologise...
 
#13
DozyBint said:
We discussed abortion a little while back... Here.
I wonder if anyone’s opinions have changed in the last few months?

Mines have.

While I still think abortion is a right and I will defend anyone’s right to choice, having watched recent G8 related TV presentations that show children in Africa having illegal abortions, usually resulting in, in reported cases, the death or severe mutilation of the female I wonder if we can safely even consider a return to back street abortions in this wonderful western country.

The legal upper limit for a Therapeutic Termination of Pregnancy is 24 weeks, however in the case of a child not viable for life an abortion can be carried our up until the birth of the child, that is the mother goes naturally into active labour. After which time the staff is required by law to attempt to resuscitate and sustain life by artificial means if necessary. We’re all to aware of the case of the parents who recently lost their battle to stop doctors with holding treatment from their severely brain damaged daughter. Is this not an on going form of abortion? Some say doctors playing God. I hold judgement on that. The upper legal limitation is further challenged if the mothers’ mental or physical well being is thought to be at terminal risk if the pregnancy continues. Again an abortion under these circumstances can be carried out until the time of birth.

So in actual fact there isn't an upper legal limit, the doctors who attend the mother set the limit. The 24 week limit was an exercise in appeasing the public outcry at the time of the laws introduction.

Beebs

PS. A foot note to this might be that I was recently made aware that a woman who was 6-8 pregnant went to her GP to discuss a termination of pregnancy, she was refereed, as is practice, to the Marie Stopes clinic, they sent her an initial appointment date for 6 weeks time, when she called to confirm/challenge this she was told that was 'average' for London, and that her actual date for the termination would be a further 6-8 weeks after her appointment. For those not to hot on the old math front that would take her to between 20-22 weeks of pregnancy.
 
#14
i have a friend who discovered she was 21 weeks pregnant whilst on tour. it was very unplanned and she was very emotional! due to her work commitments and her partners lack of enthusiasm she decided to abort her unborn child. she went through numerous councilling sessions before the op and was fully informed of the proceedure. she had an injection before hand to painlessly kill the foetus and another to enduce labour. it was a traumatising experiance for her and it left her an emotional wreck afterwards.
even after going through this heart ache she maintains that she made the right decision as she was not ready to become a mother. better a dead foetus then an unwanted child i say. keep the limits at what they are! no suffering is caused to the child only to the women going through it!
let us make our own decisions!
 
#15
I have to agree with what has been said so far. It is and should be the womans right to choose it is apparently for most an incredibly difficult decision to make and something they will always have to live with.

What I do not agree with is abortion used as a contraceptive.
 
#16
dizzy_blonde said:
i have a friend who discovered she was 21 weeks pregnant whilst on tour. it was very unplanned and she was very emotional! due to her work commitments and her partners lack of enthusiasm she decided to abort her unborn child. she went through numerous councilling sessions before the op and was fully informed of the proceedure. she had an injection before hand to painlessly kill the foetus and another to enduce labour. it was a traumatising experiance for her and it left her an emotional wreck afterwards.
even after going through this heart ache she maintains that she made the right decision as she was not ready to become a mother. better a dead foetus then an unwanted child i say. keep the limits at what they are! no suffering is caused to the child only to the women going through it!
let us make our own decisions!
Can I see a link to a medical site to show where this information comes from? The Lancet maybe?

Beebs
 
#17
Can I throw this in? That sounds bad... Can I ask the women...

The failure rate of the condom (presently the only effective male contraceptive measure) is 2-5%. Failure rate of the Pill is 0.1% if taken correctly. Would knowing this have any impact on your decision whether to consider the man's wishes regarding an unplanned pregnancy?
 
#18
I've never been pregnant so don't know any of this first hand, but as much as I understand the desire for some men to be fathers and as sincere as I'm sure some of them are regarding being single parents & taking full responsibility for the child once it's born, the fact is that for 9 months that baby lives as a parasite within the body of the woman, changing not only her body but her mind. If it were possible to remove the woman from the situation & use an artificial womb to carry the baby (my mind runs back 12 or so years to my political ideology lessons & I think Naomi Wolf proposed this as a way to free women from the burden that is motherhood) then the father's wishes should be given equal weight; but all the time that women carry and give birth to children, I can't accept that a man's wish to continue a pregnancy should rate higher than a woman's to terminate it.
 
#19
I'm taking the lawstudent bait here... :?

Tango34_UK said:
Rather then change the abortion laws would it be better, to pay out less for mothers having children, thus encourage children only within a situation where the parent / parents could afford to pay for the upkeep of the child? We could still have some type of "welfare" care system, but at this time, we have a situation within the UK where people look at Children as a way of earning money?
I agree. After all, accidents do happen. Having a system in place to help those that need helping = good. Girls/women having multiple kids as a career option, or as accessories, and assuming the state will cover it = bad. If the deciding factor is financial gain or loss, I wonder how many women would really choose to have more kids?

Then again, I also think that every person (especially in America) who wants to ban legal abortions or restrict teenagers' access to birth control should be federally issued at least one unplanned baby to raise, preferably from outside of their ethnic group. Let'em put their money where their mouths are. :evil:
 
#20
I was never really interested in the abortion pro's and con's, live and let live was my policy. Never had to deal with it as such, ie some close to me having one done. One thing has changed my mind though, the 24 weeks abortion cut off should be reduced to 20.

Mrs Duke's friend had premature twins at 24 weeks, that was 8 weeks ago. The intial response from the doctors was not good, and the mother realized that if 1 survived, she would have been very lucky. 8 weeks after the birth the twins are gaining in strength each day, and have recently starting feeding by mouth.

So is 24 weeks still the reasonable time for a women or couple to make up their mind?
 
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