Should abortion be illegal? AKA Roe vs Wade

[GreyArea]

The question still stands. You have an opinion as we all do. But what exactly do you have at stake in the Colonies? How will this choice impact you , a resident of the UK with no ties to America? You don’t live here, so it’s only a story for you.

Well, opinons are like a*seholes.

Everyone has one.

And they're usually full of sh*t.
Personally, I don't have a dog in the race as I don't live in the asylum you call the US of A

But it's a story and the free world can comment upon it.

Seems like Redneck USA doesn't like it when the free world voices criticisms of its policies that effect over half its population.

(ETA: Spelling)

 

[Steamboat]

Well, opions are like a*seholes.

Everyone has one.

And they're usually full of sh*t.
Personally, I don't have a dog in the race as I don't live in the asylum you call the US of A

But it's a story and the free world can comment upon it.

Seems like Redneck USA doesn't like it when the free world voices criticisms of its policies that effect over half its population.

It seems like Europe doesn’t like it when the Red States reject their beliefs either.

Comment away, you have an opinion. But I asked you a question and you gave me an answer. You have nothing at stake, it won’t impact you. The people who it will are already plotting their own courses to suit their needs.

 

[GreyArea]

Ahh so no balls? excellent so just like your posts lord fondlegoat

There were two, firing on all four cylinders last time I checked, however, I don't have to worry about the Good Lord making sure I'm betting on Red and Black whilst playing Vatican Roulette.

BTW, Ad Hominems are so passé this season.

 

[GreyArea]

It seems like Europe doesn’t like it when the Red States reject their beliefs either.

Comment away, you have an opinion. But I asked you a question and you gave me an answer. You have nothing at stake, it won’t impact you. The people who it will are already plotting their own courses to suit their needs.

Meh...

 

[gaijin]

Its been ignored for 50 years by congress.

That's true, it should have been codified into law years ago, it proves the dangers of complacency.

This whole episode proves what a farce it is having politically appointed supreme court (or any other) judges. The judiciary is supposed to be separated from the executive and this is clearly not the case in the USA.

 

[GreyArea]

The Land of the Free.

Roe v Wade: Abortion clinics start to close after Supreme Court ruling

After the Supreme Court removed the constitutional right to abortion, some states have outlawed it.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LordVonHarley]

That's true, it should have been codified into law years ago, it proves the dangers of complacency.

This whole episode proves what a face it is having politically appointed supreme court (or any other) judges. The judiciary is supposed to be separated from the executive and this is clearly not the case in the USA.

Kicking the abortion issue into the long grass with Roe Vs Wade was always going come back and bite the Dems and Reps on the arse.

If Senators wanted to codify it and do things properly it would involve some very hard medical, religious, legal, and moral questions being asked.
Hard questions about the type of language and words being used within the abortion issue.

Much easier to just kick it I to the long grass for 50 years.

I think at Federal level it will be complicated. Abortion services are big business, probably worth billions, and we all know how powerful the Pharma lobby groups are. Those business will not want to see a major revenue stream cut off.

Then you have the religious lobby groups, and their revenue streams being cut off ...

State level is closer to the voters, and more open to really democracy.
Those hard questions are going to be asked very publicly and will shape State Law and State Constitutions over the coming years.

Questions on abortions lead to questions on contraception and responsibilities.
More focus will be on men to rubber up and take responsibility and not pass the buck to women to worry/handle the risks of pregnancy.

I think both Reps and Dems parties are shitting themselves over this. Hard questions are going to be asked and in the sanctity of the voting booth people will be changing who they vote for and that will lead to a lot of politicians becoming unemployed and power changing hands.

 

[CivvyLurker]

This response from the coal-face (my knitting forum which has around 500,000 active monthly users, the majority of them American women) succinctly sums up the mood of those most likely to be affected:

Fu*k those fu*king fu*kers

Women are angry and scared because this won't stop abortions happening in states that ban it, but it will stop safe abortions. Women will end up mutilated and dead as a consequence. A fair number of women on the forum have posted overnight that they are planning on taking their teenage daughters to get contraceptive implants and coils fitted asap, and are looking into getting their own tubes tied (that's a whole other battle in a minefield).

It's hard to believe that a first world and supposedly civilised country as the the US has taken such a retrograde step and I am so thankful that my younger female family members do not live in the US. One American female knitter summed up this morning how the US should be seen by other countries:

We are definitely NOT role model material, no matter what our flag-waving lifted-truck-driving, cosplay “patriots” want to believe.

We’re right on the brink of becoming one of those “shithole” countries the former president talked about.

This World Service radio documentary made in September 2021 is now outdated as it discusses the Heartbeat Act (SB8 ) in Texas, but it contains vox pops and interviews from people involved firsthand; those pushing for repeal of Roe v Wade; people working in planned parenthood clinics; a single mother who has found she's unexpectedly pregnant with her fourth potential child. Personally, I find it disturbing that the anti-abortionists all seem to be driven by their religious belief, rather than rational and compassionate consideration for the lives of women and their families.

It's worth a listen.

Assignment - Heartbeats, abortion and Texas - BBC Sounds

 

[Grownup_Rafbrat]

Thoughts?

a/ you should have made it a poll

b/ What the US is doing is a massively backward step in terms of health and social policies. Removing a person's right to body autonomy in the name of an extremist branch of religion is retrograde and retarded. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one or, more importantly, don't engage in acts that might cause it.

Incest and rape cause pregnancy. Not sure the girls and women choose to engage in those acts. Or want the results to survive.

Perhaps the US should swap abortion laws with gun buying laws, make it really difficult and shameful to buy a gun, but easy to get an abortion if you meet certain medical criteria.

 

[Glasgow_Jock]

But what exactly do you have at stake in the Colonies? How will this choice impact you , a resident of the UK with no ties to America? You don’t live here, so it’s only a story for you.

Conversely, how does what a woman chooses to do with her body impact you, a biological male. You don't have a uterus, what's it to you?

In fairness to a point you made up thread, I agree it's now less ridiculous being a state decision than a federal one. If folk don't like what the majority of that state decides they can upsticks.

What's the law in all these Christian Sharia red states regarding vasectomies btw, anyone?

 

[Fat_Cav]

The Land of the Free.

Roe v Wade: Abortion clinics start to close after Supreme Court ruling

After the Supreme Court removed the constitutional right to abortion, some states have outlawed it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Which is always sung with a straight face

 

[stacker1]

Conversely, how does what a woman chooses to do with her body impact you, a biological male. You don't have a uterus, what's it to you?

The argument is that they can do what they like to their bodies, just not to the unborn child's body.

 

[Dashing_Chap]

I was given to understand from Freakonomics that Roe v Wade was the reason the US crime rate dropped so dramatically in late 90s or thereabouts.

Not increases in police recruitment, not broken window theory stuff just that the poor, addicted and no hopes didn't have to try and raise a kid in squalor if they didn't want to.

Give it about 15 years to rocket again?

A lot of people disagree with that but I think it's a legit point, at least from my own life experience. It was pointed out quite well in the movie Idiocracy.

This is a generalisation, but smart people generally take their time to try and make smart decisions and think through consequences. Dumb people are impulsive and make snap decisions without thinking about how it will affect their long term future.

As a result, smart people generally have fewer kids because they wait for financial security - a house/job/car etc and then only have as many as they can afford.

Dumb people pop out several kids without considering how they will support them and often without being in a stable relationship. This inevitably leads to poverty because you can't afford a house/car whilst raising kids and it's more difficult to get a job. For dumb people this generally doesn't matter because they face a life on the dole anyway.

In conclusion, dumb people have more kids that they can't afford because they are impulsive and stupid. Smart people have fewer kids because they pay for them. Ergo, there's a rising number of chavs and underclass from feckless parents and fewer kids raised in stable households. This in turn leads to a rise in crime, gangs and poverty.

It also doesn't help that we're constantly importing masses of uneducated young men from third world countries who see no limit to their feral offspring due to cultural or religious reasons.

 

[Dashing_Chap]

The argument is that they can do what they like to their bodies, just not to the unborn child's body.

What about a new child's body? How come we don't see any movement against circumcision?

That's basically child abuse imho.

 

[LordVonHarley]

This response from the coal-face (my knitting forum which has around 500,000 active monthly users, the majority of them American women) succinctly sums up the mood of those most likely to be affected:



Women are angry and scared because this won't stop abortions happening in states that ban it, but it will stop safe abortions. Women will end up mutilated and dead as a consequence. A fair number of women on the forum have posted overnight that they are planning on taking their teenage daughters to get contraceptive implants and coils fitted asap, and are looking into getting their own tubes tied (that's a whole other battle in a minefield).

It's hard to believe that a first world and supposedly civilised country as the the US has taken such a retrograde step and I am so thankful that my younger female family members do not live in the US. One American female knitter summed up this morning how the US should be seen by other countries:



This World Service radio documentary made in September 2021 is now outdated as it discusses the Heartbeat Act (SB8 ) in Texas, but it contains vox pops and interviews from people involved firsthand; those pushing for repeal of Roe v Wade; people working in planned parenthood clinics; a single mother who has found she's unexpectedly pregnant with her fourth potential child. Personally, I find it disturbing that the anti-abortionists all seem to be driven by their religious belief, rather than rational and compassionate consideration for the lives of women and their families.

It's worth a listen.

Assignment - Heartbeats, abortion and Texas - BBC Sounds

Contraception! One of the best ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
It is good to hear that more people will be using them. Men also need to do their bit.
It takes two to tango, three if you are lucky.

With the prospects abortions not being available so easily and 18 years of child support payments becoming a very real outcome of a shag, I suspect fathers and sons will be reaching for the Durex or getting the snip.

I wonder how many Senators have invested heavily in Durex and female contraceptive producers?

 

[Skunkmiester]

I thought that the US gun laws were part of the abortion laws?

They have been successfully aborting teenagers for many years.

 

[stacker1]

What about a new child's body? How come we don't see any movement against circumcision?

That's basically child abuse imho.

Don't ask me, I'm not a yank, I also disagree with circumcision.

 

[CivvyLurker]

Contraception! One of the best ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
It is good to hear that more people will be using them. Men also need to do their bit.
It takes two to tango, three if you are lucky.

With the prospects abortions not being available so easily and 18 years of child support payments becoming a very real outcome of a shag, I suspect fathers and sons will be reaching for the Durex or getting the snip.

I wonder how many Senators have invested heavily in Durex and female contraceptive producers?

Even contraception can fail. And what of women who are victims of rape and incest?

Plus Clarence Thomas is now making noises about making contraception harder to get hold of (as well as repealing same-sex marriage laws). Apparently, if a 'child' is to be protected from day one after conception by anti-abortion laws, then contraception devices that prevent blastocyst implantation in the womb should be reviewed as they prevent the 'child's' right to life.

This is why women are looking at taking their teenagers to have coils fitted as they can stay in place for a few years, regardless of malevolent Supreme Court judges.

I agree that men need to do their bit. Not raping women would also be helpful.

 

[labrat]

This US Supreme Court judgement didn’t ban abortion, it simply said that that abortion laws were a democratic issue not a constitutional one

We therefore hold that the Constitution does not confer a right to abortion. Roe and Casey must be overruled, and the authority to regulate abortion must be returned to the people and their elected representatives.

The fact is that that really shouldn’t be particularly controversial… Women are about 51% of the US population. They also have the vote.

 

[TractorStats]

Should I post what an aborted fetuses remains look like?

The problem is that picture of the dead woman and one of an aborted foetus are equally emotive and equally easy for either side to use to back up their argument. The job of real politicians who are worth their office is to set aside such lazy emotive rhetoric and I mean that on both left and right.

I really fear that women will die in illegal back street abortions after this ruling but I don't want the other extreme of legalised infanticide of perfectly viable near term babies that would have lived if only they had been born prematurely and cared for rather than killed.

This is a hard issue and it dismays me that in a first world democracy with the best scientists, medics and legal brains that a humane answer cannot be found.