Should abortion be illegal? AKA Roe vs Wade

[Nemesis44UK]

In America, it would appear that nearly fifty years of women's rights are to be destroyed by overturning the landmark Roe vs Wade court ruling which allows abortions to be carried out legally.

A leaked document shows that the Supreme Court, the highest legal authority in the US is looking to overturn this ruling.

From the BBC:

Roe v Wade: What is US Supreme Court ruling on abortion?

The US Supreme Court has overturned the landmark case which legalised abortion in 1973.

www.bbc.co.uk

I believe legal abortions should be continued because whilst I disagree with abortions as a form of birth control, the fact remains that there are instances where continuing a pregnancy causes great and lasting stress for the mother to be. It can also be a health risk in some cases for either the mother or foetus.

I'll also go further to say that it isn't up to a man to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body.

I will also say that Ireland have only just allowed abortions on Irish soil, in 2019.

This move from the US is disappointing and regressionist. It shows that the bible-thumping fundamental Christians are running the show.

Thoughts?

 

[instinct]

Very interesting that many churches won't baptise or provide a funeral service for a still Born child as it "never took a breath" the hypocritical twats............

There should be some reasonable controls but its getting very "hand maids tale" over there at the minute...

 

[gaijin]

Thoughts?

a/ you should have made it a poll

b/ What the US is doing is a massively backward step in terms of health and social policies. Removing a person's right to body autonomy in the name of an extremist branch of religion is retrograde and retarded. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one or, more importantly, don't engage in acts that might cause it.

 

[Portree Kid]

Thoughts?

Abortions in the UK costs the NHS a minimum of £125 million a year - Some 45% of these are repeat abortions.

The biggest cohort is 15 - 21 year olds.

There is a strong message in there.

As for the US - Right or wrong that is for the Yanks to sort out.

 

[Ursus Major]

Killing babies is wrong. Next?

 

[instinct]

Abortions in the UK costs the NHS a minimum of £125 million a year - Some 45% of these are repeat abortions.

The biggest cohort is 15 - 21 year olds.

There is a strong message in there.

As for the US - Right or wrong that is for the Yanks to sort out.

Cheaper than having to pay to raise them!

 

[halo_jones]

Like it or not this is not so much about abortion, as returning to allowing the differing states to rule on abortions legality... Americas political system is supposed to be more states rights having primacy over federal governance.

Some states tend to go with safe and rare, others are happy to allow abortion up to birth. Its a complicated issue and nuanced issue, but the Democrats need something to run on for the mid terms.

 

[Portree Kid]

Cheaper than having to pay to raise them!

Even cheaper to have the ability to keep your legs shut - Or at least be careful.

 

[Murphy_Slaw]

Abortions in the UK costs the NHS a minimum of £125 million a year - Some 45% of these are repeat abortions.

The biggest cohort is 15 - 21 year olds.

How much would it cost the UK tax payer to care for these unwanted kids over their lifetime?

There is a strong message in there.

Agreed and it's a message that needs to be endorced at all levels, starting with parents and schools.

As for the US - Right or wrong that is for the Yanks to sort out.

Again I agree. However it's quite disturbing how the USA is still making laws based on a book which claims the Earth is only 6000 years old!

 

[Portree Kid]

How much would it cost the UK tax payer to care for these unwanted kids over their lifetime?

That wasn't the point that I was trying to make.

200,000 abortions in England and Wales per annum - 45%ish of them are repeat abortions.

No issue with the abortions - Let's start making the 45% of repeats pay for the privilege.

It won't take long for the message to hit home.

 

[CaptainRidiculous]

Problem is the abortion - on - demand method of contraception, which is rife.
how long have we had the Pill? and Condoms? and other devices?
yet a lot of dimwits still use the withdrawal and prayer method!
Irresponsible mutts.
My sister, no stranger to nose candy and alcopops, had a termination years ago. On Doctor's advise.
Pretty grim all round.

 

[CaptainRidiculous]

That wasn't the point that I was trying to make.

200,000 abortions in England and Wales per annum - 45%ish of them are repeat abortions.

No issue with the abortions - Let's start making the 45% of repeats pay for the privilege.

It won't take long for the message to hit home.

Or after Terminator #2 tie their tubes?
Oh wait - Human Rights issue, innit?

 

[headgear]

In America, it would appear that nearly fifty years of women's rights are to be destroyed by overturning the landmark Roe vs Wade court ruling which allows abortions to be carried out legally.

A leaked document shows that the Supreme Court, the highest legal authority in the US is looking to overturn this ruling.

From the BBC:

Roe v Wade: What is US Supreme Court ruling on abortion?

The US Supreme Court has overturned the landmark case which legalised abortion in 1973.

www.bbc.co.uk

I believe legal abortions should be continued because whilst I disagree with abortions as a form of birth control, the fact remains that there are instances where continuing a pregnancy causes great and lasting stress for the mother to be. It can also be a health risk in some cases for either the mother or foetus.

I'll also go further to say that it isn't up to a man to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body.

I will also say that Ireland have only just allowed abortions on Irish soil, in 2019.

This move from the US is disappointing and regressionist. It shows that the bible-thumping fundamental Christians are running the show.

Thoughts?

The decision to overturn Roe Vs Wade does not make abortion illegal in the USA - it just returns the decision to the individual State Legislators. Abortion is not and was never in the American Constitution and the Supreme Court had no legal justification to make their decision in the 70s - it was an 'activist' decision rather than legal- even the much vaunted left wing Supreme Court Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg stated many times that it was 'problematic'.

I have zero skin in this game and am not against abortion - as long as the cut off time for it is sensible like most modern western democracy's. Last week, Chucky Schumer, Far Left Democrat Senate Leader, put forward a bill to create a Federal Law to allow abortion with no time limits - ie up to the point of birth for the mothers health - but very carefully did not explain what is meant by 'health' - some Democrat activists are actually calling for abortion AFTER the baby has been birthed! if the mother decides she wants it for her mental 'health' - unsurprisingly, the bill got soundly defeated as it was batshit crazy

Some States, like Florida, have a 15 week limit and limited exceptions after that point regarding saving the mothers life and others such as far Left California and New York will no doubt become Abortion Tourist destinations where women all over America will get fully funded travel and other costs - and that is not a joke, it is already being planned and funded

- the point is, it will now depend upon the State Representatives to make their State laws and if the people in their State don't like it, they can get voted out - the Supreme Court Judges are unelected, political appointees and life appointees who have no business judging on anything not in the constitution or bypassing congress to create their own new Federal Laws. Biden has the White house, Senate and Congress -all he has to do is to get Chucky Schumer to put forward a sensible Federal Abortion law that most people, including Republicans in the USA can support - opinion polls say that 60-70ish percent of yanks support abortion so it is not beyond the wit of man to create a law if lawmakers compromise

 

[J.A.S. Backpack]

It should be compulsory.

 

[CaptainRidiculous]

Some States, like Florida, have a 15 week limit and limited exceptions after that point regarding saving the mothers life and others such as far Left California and New York will no doubt become Abortion Tourist destinations where women all over America will get fully funded travel and other costs - and that is not a joke, it is already being planned and funded

So a whole new industry - like the Reno divorces?

 

[headgear]

So a whole new industry - like the Reno divorces?

yes, last week the Democrat NY Governor was begging company's to relocate to New York on the basis that their workforce would never be stopped from having abortions and gleefully funding abortion centres - Gavin Newsome in California will likely offer to abort babies himself with his teeth - sadly, abortion derangement syndrome is real on both sides but agreement could be reached for the majority if the politicians (on both sides) weren't such bell ends

Governor Hochul Announces Nation-leading $35 Million Investment to Support Abortion Providers in New York

Governor Hochul announced a nation-leading $35 million investment to directly support abortion providers in anticipation of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade.

www.governor.ny.gov

'A safe harbor': Hochul vows New York will provide abortion services for out-of-state patients

"We fully anticipate people will travel here," Hochul, the state's first woman governor, said on MSNBC.

www.politico.com

 

[Nemesis44UK]

The decision to overturn Roe Vs Wade does not make abortion illegal in the USA - it just returns the decision to the individual State Legislators. Abortion is not and was never in the American Constitution and the Supreme Court had no legal justification to make their decision in the 70s - it was an 'activist' decision rather than legal- even the much vaunted left wing Supreme Court Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg stated many times that it was 'problematic'.

I have zero skin in this game and am not against abortion - as long as the cut off time for it is sensible like most modern western democracy's. Last week, Chucky Schumer, Far Left Democrat Senate Leader, put forward a bill to create a Federal Law to allow abortion with no time limits - ie up to the point of birth for the mothers health - but very carefully did not explain what is meant by 'health' - some Democrat activists are actually calling for abortion AFTER the baby has been birthed! if the mother decides she wants it for her mental 'health' - unsurprisingly, the bill got soundly defeated as it was batshit crazy

Some States, like Florida, have a 15 week limit and limited exceptions after that point regarding saving the mothers life and others such as far Left California and New York will no doubt become Abortion Tourist destinations where women all over America will get fully funded travel and other costs - and that is not a joke, it is already being planned and funded

- the point is, it will now depend upon the State Representatives to make their State laws and if the people in their State don't like it, they can get voted out - the Supreme Court Judges are unelected, political appointees and life appointees who have no business judging on anything not in the constitution or bypassing congress to create their own new Federal Laws. Biden has the White house, Senate and Congress -all he has to do is to get Chucky Schumer to put forward a sensible Federal Abortion law that most people, including Republicans in the USA can support - opinion polls say that 60-70ish percent of yanks support abortion so it is not beyond the wit of man to create a law if lawmakers compromise

Thank you for the clarification. Of course, your bible-belt states will drop it faster than a pellet of Strontium 90, but some states will continue, such as California.

Abortion should only ever be carried out in the early stages of gestation. I have read some proper horror stories from nurses who've worked in such clinics with late-term abortions.

Since abortion was illegal in Ireland up till three years ago, women who wanted one would have to go to the mainland UK to have it. Known as "going across the water" or "a holiday in England."

That will happen in the US - women will travel to abortion-legal states to have it done.

What concerns me is that the US seems to be regressing to a rather unenlightened position on a few things, this being the most radical so far. I fear that the US is returning to a church over state position, where common sense and scientific achievements are pushed down in favour of religious superstition.

 

[Nemesis44UK]

Oh, by the way, if anyone wants to hear some real horror stories about abortion clinics, check out Dr Kermit Gosnell. His filthy operating areas, reusage of disposable items such as scalpels, dressings and incorrect sterilisation routines led to the infections of many and the deaths of a few.

Late term abortion was absolutely not a problem for him as he would simply snip the cervical cord in the baby's neck with a pair of scissors, regardless of whether they were 30 weeks or 24 weeks.

There is an excellent podcast called Sword & Scale, episode 55 which covers it (unfortunately, it's behind a paywall).

With the recriminalisation of abortion, secret clinics like his will flourish and many women will die as a result.

 

[baboon6]

What concerns me is that the US seems to be regressing to a rather unenlightened position on a few things, this being the most radical so far. I fear that the US is returning to a church over state position, where common sense and scientific achievements are pushed down in favour of religious superstition.

Perhaps in some ways in some places in the US. Complete leftist lunacy seems to be far more common in many cities and states . I‘m not talking specifically about abortion .

 

[headgear]

Thank you for the clarification. Of course, your bible-belt states will drop it faster than a pellet of Strontium 90, but some states will continue, such as California.

Abortion should only ever be carried out in the early stages of gestation. I have read some proper horror stories from nurses who've worked in such clinics with late-term abortions.

Since abortion was illegal in Ireland up till three years ago, women who wanted one would have to go to the mainland UK to have it. Known as "going across the water" or "a holiday in England."

That will happen in the US - women will travel to abortion-legal states to have it done.

What concerns me is that the US seems to be regressing to a rather unenlightened position on a few things, this being the most radical so far. I fear that the US is returning to a church over state position, where common sense and scientific achievements are pushed down in favour of religious superstition.

I don’t know why you think this is radical and regressive? - politicians in every other western country put forward abortion legislation and create the law - the USA has state and federal laws - in the absence of the lawmakers in congress creating a law , the democratically elected state representatives put forward theirs - the Supreme Court has zero jurisdiction in this case and never will until it becomes the law of the land by congress and they can adjudicate on it as a matter of law - also , if you are a bible thumper who whole heartedly believes in the sanctity of life and live in a state with majority like minded individuals why should you be forced to accept what they see as murder by people not living in your state or with different beliefs? - and it’s not just Christian’s , other religions are equally opposed to various things that the lefty liberals believe in - democracy is not regressive or radical - ramming through your own beliefs anti democratically is - but again I have no skin in this and don’t care as it is Upto Americans to resolve