Shotguns gone MIA with RFD

exXIX

Old-Salt
Gents, I need a bit of advice on this. September last year I deposited two shotguns with my local Gunshop for him to sell on a commission sale basis, I can't remember what his cut was but 15% rings a bell. The reserve was £800 each.
I called the shop last week as I wanted to get the guns back. New bloke answers the phone - The business was sold in January , he is the new owner and knows nothing. Checks his books and the guns are not there. New owner advises me to contact the previous owner who happens to own a hardware shop next door. I contact the old owner and he blusters a bit, that says that he thinks the guns were are sold, call back in 48 hours and he'll have news. Now he's not picking up.
I'm 3,000 miles away in the Gulf and not able to pay him a visit for a couple of weeks. Much as I am tempted to break his fingers, I feel that some non-violent course of action is the best choice.
The only paperwork I have is a Receipt for the sale of the guns with no specified price, which he gave me back in September. At the time I assumed this was all kosher.
I'm thinking a visit to the Old Bill might be in order...
Advice please.
 
Gents, I need a bit of advice on this. September last year I deposited two shotguns with my local Gunshop for him to sell on a commission sale basis, I can't remember what his cut was but 15% rings a bell. The reserve was £800 each.
I called the shop last week as I wanted to get the guns back. New bloke answers the phone - The business was sold in January , he is the new owner and knows nothing. Checks his books and the guns are not there. New owner advises me to contact the previous owner who happens to own a hardware shop next door. I contact the old owner and he blusters a bit, that says that he thinks the guns were are sold, call back in 48 hours and he'll have news. Now he's not picking up.
I'm 3,000 miles away in the Gulf and not able to pay him a visit for a couple of weeks. Much as I am tempted to break his fingers, I feel that some non-violent course of action is the best choice.
The only paperwork I have is a Receipt for the sale of the guns with no specified price, which he gave me back in September. At the time I assumed this was all kosher.
I'm thinking a visit to the Old Bill might be in order...
Advice please.
Looks to me like the only way you can sort this is out is with proper paperwork signed by him to say he took the guns for the purpose of selling them. He would then need need a matching receipt to say he paid up when they sold. If he still had his store, I would think it's an issue to bring up to a consumer protection ombudsman. But since he has left it's probably now for the police to look into. Without something proper on paper though it's just your allegation against his, which of course would get you no where in court.

But yeah, this is all just my attempt at logic for the situation rather than knowing what I'm talking about.

I actually don't know how the gun licensing system works where you are. Shouldn't there be some paperwork to identify the weapons and change ownership? Even if this wasn't done, sounds like now you need to involve the police at least for the sake of declaring a stolen firearm... unless you want your name on it when it's found in a park trash can after being used to off the local drug dealer :p
 

4(T)

LE
The old RFD is legally obliged to preserve his gun register details for 5 years from the date of any particular transaction.

Hence your SGs will have a verifiable paper trail, assuming its less than five years since you handed them over. You should be able to tell the police that there is some sort of dispute, and request that they check the location of the guns.*

Therefore the fate of the SGs can be ascertained. What may be in dispute, of course, is whether you sold/gave the weapons to the RFD, or what sale instructions there may have been.

(in my register, I write in the details of any commission sale at the time of entry).


* Edit: of course if you mention this to the old RFD, you may well find that he will fall over himself to resolve the issue. It just may be that he will run scared of having his records checked...
 
Are you a member of BASC ?
I know a part of the membership fee covers legal representation in certain circumstances.
Least they will be able to do is offer some informed advice.
 
I would speak to the Police. Without proof that the guns were legally sold, they remain yours. If they ended up being used for nefarious purposes, you could end up having a very uncomfortable time...
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
Assuming you have the paperwork to show he receipted for the guns to sell on your behalf, I would send him a letter explaining that you either want the guns returned or the cash for their sale. Dependent on the response (if any) you could consider reporting the matter to the Police as a case of theft.

I also suggest in whatever dealings you have with the previous RFD, make sure you have a trial i.e. email, signed for letter etc.
 

Blogg

LE
There is no obligation to notify Plod of a disposal to an RFD because it is assumed that it is then on the Register that they are obliged to keep.

However generally considered wise to notify your licencing force anyway.

In your circumstances, if a response is not forthcoming I would make it clear that you will be maling call to your licencing force. Sure they will have an interest in "clarifying" the position, whi h may jog his memory.

That said if he does have all the proper inbound and outbound RFD movement records and has simply failed to cough up, it will be a civil matter
 
Deleted 20555 has spoken - clearly the sensitivity surrounding shotguns and the policing thereof has escaped his memory. I think that I can safely say that notifying the Force with whom you hold your shotgun licence would be a wise precautionary move. Clearly, they do things differently in Sef Efrica.
 

ACAB

LE
I would speak to the Police. Without proof that the guns were legally sold, they remain yours. If they ended up being used for nefarious purposes, you could end up having a very uncomfortable time...
I would say this is excellent advice and advise you to take it if for nothing more than covering your backside.
 
My twopennth worth... They have been there since September, you'll be back in two weeks, realistically nothing will change unless you act. You have receipt saying the RFD took possession of the guns, you're covered as such, however informing the local force at the time would have been best.

Informing you local force now won't hurt if you are genuinely worried or want advice, do you have your FEO's number? Should find it on the net. ACAB above has gravitas on this. A personal visit to the ex-RFD when you're back and he might have 'found' them or have the money by then.
 
Deleted 20555 has spoken - clearly the sensitivity surrounding shotguns and the policing thereof has escaped his memory. I think that I can safely say that notifying the Force with whom you hold your shotgun licence would be a wise precautionary move. Clearly, they do things differently in Sef Efrica.
Absolutely right. Don't mess with registered firearms.*

If you are the last registered owner and they pop-up involved in some dodgy doings the first event will be sitting on an uncomfortable chair with no coffee. And, although unlikely with a reasonable explanation, it may result in being charged in the first instance until matters are resolved.

Note: Like they used to say in the army; don't mess with ammunition, or mess funds.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
There is no obligation to notify Plod of a disposal to an RFD because it is assumed that it is then on the Register that they are obliged to keep.

However generally considered wise to notify your licencing force anyway.

In your circumstances, if a response is not forthcoming I would make it clear that you will be maling call to your licencing force. Sure they will have an interest in "clarifying" the position, whi h may jog his memory.

That said if he does have all the proper inbound and outbound RFD movement records and has simply failed to cough up, it will be a civil matter
You are required to notify if disposed of not if just lodged for safe keeping etc. This is covered by a 72 hour chitty.
 
Get the paper trail checked and notify the boys in blue as your ability to have a shotgun at a later stage could be kyboshed and it covers you rearend. And as said guns are sensitive and emotional issues so push the blame onto the correct parties who you put a duty of trust in to dispose of your guns in a safe and legal manner.
 
Is there anyone local to the gunship who can pay them a visit?

I wouldn't be surprised if your guns are still there unsold and both the old and new RFD are fobbing you off with excuses because their records aren't in order and/or they can't remember what they did with your guns.
 
personally i would suggest that your local FEO being happy with you is of far greater importance than whatever cash or guns are involved - i'd contact the OB immediately, ask them to take a look into it (its either theft or firearms offences, they'll be interested...), and only when the OB are happy that you gave the guns to the RFD for sale/safekeeping would i be remotely concerned with the money.

£1600 or a pair of shotguns will be poor recompence for being on your FEO's shitlist for the next thousand years, and if you get charged - even for a minor, technical breach for which you are subsequently absolved - you're fucked.
 

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