Shotguns for door breach and CQB

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by IndependentBoffin, May 7, 2011.

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  1. I notice in publicity photos of ballistic door breaching, police or soldiers who do the job use a shotgun at close range, reportedly with a special frangible "Hatton" shell or just buck/birdshot.

    Breaching round - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Do police/soldiers generally frown on shotguns for CQB work? If so, why?

    Have police/soldiers used this for door breach during CQB work to still retain the use of an AR/SMG?
    M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I just notice that the guys using SGs to breach the doors have their SMGs slung over their shoulder, and if they thought a SG was adequate for CQB they'd be using that as their door breach and primary weapon instead of carrying a SMG too.

    Have people tried using these sorts of frangible rounds for door breaching, and if so how effective are they?
    Glaser Safety Slug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Is there a market out there for an invention that enables police or soldiers to be able to door breach in a single shot with an assault rifle, SMG or even a pistol with minimal overpenetration and weight encumbrance?
     
  2. IB, are you going to file another patent?
     
  3. There is something called a SIMON used and I think invented by the Israelis, with some sort of breeching charge thrown through the air by a live round from an M4 or M-16, but whatever the baldie-man from 'Future Weapons' says, I would not like to plug it into the muzzle of my gat, nor be anywhere in the vicinity of where it is deployed. Looks rather a Heath Robinson arrangement to me (he says from a position of profound ignorance of weapon design).
     
  4. Yes, if you can get it in 9mm or 5.56mm or it's a cup on the end of the rifle/SMG that the 5.56 or 9mm round initiates and the rifle/SMG reverts to 'normal.'

    Police used to use shotguns all of the time, along with Lee Enfield's, first No. 4's, then Enfield Enforcer. Then came the Embassy assault in 1990 and the rest is history.

    IIRC, there was one villain in the early '80's who shot and killed a copper who, when he found it he was surrounded by officers who had shotguns, gave himself (and his SPAS 12) up. Allegedly, he would have fought it out if the cops had rifles/SMG's.

    The Army have (fairly) recently issued a shotgun:Combat Shotgun - British Army Website
     
  5. SIMON is a door removal rather than take off the locks type system: SIMON breach grenade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    [​IMG]

    At fist glance it looks like the rocket is some sort of night sight :)
     
  6. Before the MP5 became standard issue (late 80') I was on a job to arrest a male wanted for bank robbery. When he heard the sound of three shotguns being racked simultaneously he actually pissed himself. He was brought forward in tears with a map of Australia adorning the front of his grey joggers. Great weapon for psychological impact.
     
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  7. Nice, it does have a distinctive sound .... (wanders off into Robert Duval moment, loving the smell of napalm in the morning)
     
  8. I am happy to be corrected, but my choice in a total-combat-no-civvies environment in a dwelling would always be a shotgun. No fukcer gets up from a solid shotgun hit. Also, reduced ricochet and reduced injuries from any pellets that do bounce, is a factor. The reason for carrying the SMG is to enable the assaulter to fire accurate shots into a group of bodies where hostages are mixed with terrs.

    Risky but not as risky as the spread of a shotgun, which is approximately 1" diameter per yard of range. The pro-SMG crowd would also say, with considerable justification, that a burst of 9mm is very closely equivalent to a round of 000 buckshot and has mags that are easier to change.
     

  9. (I believe they're using OO buckshot)

    In a war zone there are ammo, range and penetration limitations to shoguns - the enemy are carrying AKs.

    Not much of a burden compared to other infantry equipment.
     
  10. MOE shotgun of choice used to be a shortened Remington 870 wingmaster shotgun with pistol and stock handgrip loaded with Hatton rounds which I believe contain compacted powdered material which when fired directly at a door hinge will remove it.
     
  11. The Hatton rds were loaded with compressed powdered lead. I was on the ranges when Reg C was trying the rounds out in the mid 80's.

    [​IMG]

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  12. I like to use the door handle.
     
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  13. Alexander arms 0.50cal beowolf, saw this on future weapons and it could work in this role.
     
  14. OK that method would work but far more fun using a shotgun :wink:
     
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