Shotgun - Refurb help

#1
I have just aquired this lovely old girl for a very good price, so it is worth spending a little on her to bring back some of her faded glory.

I'm quite confident to spruce up the wood but the barrels need some dents raising and the damascus needs fettling with.

I'm looking for a good, not to expensive gunsmith who would do a good job on the barrels please. I haven't googled or reseached yet, I thought perhaps one of you gentlemen could give me some direction. I'm in the Midlands, not far from the gunmakers capital.

This is what she looks like now.

Thanks.
 

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#3
Need to check if it's nitro proofed first. Take her to a decent gun shop who can tell you what the stamps mean. Even if it is it won't take a large load and chamber length may be shorter than later guns.
If you are in the midlands check the Birmingham proof house. They can proof your gun for quite a small cost.
Shooting with a hammer is fun you have to factor in the delay from pulling the trigger to the hammer striking. Not long but enough to make a difference.
 
#4
Shooting with a hammer is fun you have to factor in the delay from pulling the trigger to the hammer striking. Not long but enough to make a difference.
It certainly does, but the delay is not as much as shooting a flintlock - that's positively glacial!
 
#5
I'm not going to shoot it much if at all. Still, I agree it does need proofing. I've been to the proofhouse a few time. Very helpful chaps.

No nitro proof stamps I can see. Not that I know a great deal about it but they sometimes have 'nitroproof' stamped on the barrels. They do habe 'NOT FOR BALL' which I thought was helpful!

And Joe, your sig stops just a few frames short! Get it sorted :)
 
#7
Nitro proofing an old blackpowder piece usually involves sleeving them down 12 bore to 16 etc. Crap solution it destroys the gun's balance. Spending a packet swaging the barrels out and then re-browning them would only make sense to me if you were to use the cartridges it was made for.

I used blackpowder loads in my Grandad's 8 bore duck gun for years, no problem!
 
#8
Nitro proofing an old blackpowder piece usually involves sleeving them down 12 bore to 16 etc. Crap solution it destroys the gun's balance. Spending a packet swaging the barrels out and then re-browning them would only make sense to me if you were to use the cartridges it was made for.

I used blackpowder loads in my Grandad's 8 bore duck gun for years, no problem!
Getting black powder shotgun carts is pretty hard in the uk.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#11
My 1872-6 Richards hammergun was converted to rebounding hammers by the maker in 1892, and it looks like the last time it needed work before passing nitro proof in 1995.
I have put 5000 shells through it. The hinge pin drifts out a bit if I don't watch it, and the nipples can get loose - but that is it.

I assume you verified the wall thickness before purchase? Other than that any well made gun without obvious faults should be fine to proof and shoot. My chamber is 65mm/2.5 inch and I have a nice light 21gm nitro clay load for practice, and a 28gm nitro game load.

Edit:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/shooting-hunting-fishing/105676-rifles-hot-not-show-us-yer-kit-47.html

Post #468
 
#12
My 1872-6 Richards hammergun was converted to rebounding hammers by the maker in 1892, and it looks like the last time it needed work before passing nitro proof in 1995.
I have put 5000 shells through it. The hinge pin drifts out a bit if I don't watch it, and the nipples can get loose - but that is it.

I assume you verified the wall thickness before purchase? Other than that any well made gun without obvious faults should be fine to proof and shoot. My chamber is 65mm/2.5 inch and I have a nice light 21gm nitro clay load for practice, and a 28gm nitro game load.
If I'm honest I didn't verify the wall thickness prior to purchase. Yes, I should have done of course but the price was right. Sounds a bit dodgy but the seller was legit, I'm 100% of that. The seller assured me he did fire it but ever so I'm not going to take his word for it before an inspection. By eye, apart from dents, it all looks good but as we know that means nothing without checking the walls. If I never fire it I'm not going to cry, that's was never the point.

Funny enough I have a Westley Richards 2.5in chamber I put 21g clay load through, not a hammer though. Your Richards sounds a joy.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#13
If I'm honest I didn't verify the wall thickness prior to purchase. Yes, I should have done of course but the price was right. Sounds a bit dodgy but the seller was legit, I'm 100% of that. The seller assured me he did fire it but ever so I'm not going to take his word for it before an inspection. By eye, apart from dents, it all looks good but as we know that means nothing without checking the walls. If I never fire it I'm not going to cry, that's was never the point.

Funny enough I have a Westley Richards 2.5in chamber I put 21g clay load through, not a hammer though. Your Richards sounds a joy.
Mine is a W. Richards not a Westley.

Ask someone to gauge the walls, only then will you know what you can do with it. Good luck!
 
#14
Actually you've made me think now, mine is signed W. Richards on the barrells but has Westley Richard on the ticket! Hmmm.
I had a look at yours on the post, very nice sir!

I shall get the walls checked on the hammer. Cheers.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#15
Actually you've made me think now, mine is signed W. Richards on the barrells but has Westley Richard on the ticket! Hmmm.
I had a look at yours on the post, very nice sir!

I shall get the walls checked on the hammer. Cheers.
If it says W. Richards of Liverpool on the barrels it is not a Westley. Records exist back to 1891.
W. Richards were faked in Belgium between the wars, but not usually hammerguns.
 
#18
Gamebore still sell them.
Peter Starley he of the black powder told me back in August they had stopped making then. Been busy and away for a while so I will check. Not bothered to get my BP stuff sorted yet either.

My hammer is a Jones and Lloyd 1879. Anyone know the firm?
 
#19
I have just finished refurbing my Armstrong damascus hammer gun..

I made a dent raiser along the lines of the one described on the Midway Film clips. It works very well. If you are not happy doing this yourself, then mst good gunsmiths have them..

I also rebrowned the barrels using Peter Dyson's browning solution.. the sequence is as follows:

1. After dent raising and any other repair work, strike off the barrels with emery cloth on a wood backer, going from 320 to 600 grit. Work form end to end, but make sure you tape off any engraving on the rib.. You need to get a mirror finish. Don't worry if the damascus pattern disappears, it will return.

2. You need to get ALL traces of grease off the barrels for the next stage.. Wrap some wine corks with PFTE tape and stick them in both ends of the barrel, and then wipe off with Acetone. Wear latex gloves from here on in..

3. Soak the barrels in warm copper sulfate solution (250gm in 5L water). I use a plastic plant trough for this. Give the barrels a good shake as you put them into the solution to make sure there are no trapped air bubbles and leave for 30mins.

4. After 30 mins remove the barrels which will be coated in a thick brown sludge. Scrape and wash this off. Remove the bungs and give the barrels a good wash in hot water and dry thoroughly.. remember to keep your latex gloves on at all times. Put two dowel pegs in opposite barrels to hold them with for the next stage...

5. Wipe the barrels with a bit of 4x4 moistened with Dysons Browning solution. Make sure you get no streaks, but cover the whole area. Hang up the barrel for 24 hrs.

6. The next day the barrel will be coated in a fine layer of rust. Using XXXX wire wool rub off the rust and repeat the browning solution treatment. Repeat for at least 7 cycles or until you get the depth of finish you want.

7. When you are satisfied, stop the rusting process by immersing the barrels in caustic soda (200gm in 5L of warm water). Wash and dry off.

8. You can stop here, however if you want a deeper shade of brown, you can immerse the barrels in a logwood solution (again from Peter Dyson).

9. Traditionally Damascus barrels were finished off with Boiled Linseed oil. The surface of the metal is still porous at this time and needs a setting oil to seal it. You can also use a polar synthetic oil such as Eezox or Birchwood Casey Barricade..

The rusting process can be speeded up by using a "damp box" with a tray of water and a light bulb as a heat source. This will reduce the cycle time to about an hour..

Some good tips here on the late Tony Treadwell's web site..

How to: Barrel Browning | Vintage Shotgun Restoration Site
 

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