Shortage of Artificer Vehicles SSgts?


Is it right that there is a letter knocking about saying the Corps is in another mess with a Shortage of Artificer Vehicles SSgt's?

No doubt we will now be considering putting the Artizan in the gaps?

1 day PAAB and no tiffies.....hmmmmmm :?


Nige said:
SSgt Art Veh post is too easy a job for an Artisan SSgt.... ;)
Slightly predictable... :D

But what is this letter going on about? Surely there are lots of poor quality fast-tracked tiffies going through the factory right now?
Yeah, sorry about that - thought I'd get it in before anyone else.

Bear in mind the reason PAABs have been messed around with is that we weren't getting enough blokes through, so maybe the perceived lowering of standards hasn't borne fruit yet.

Give it about 6 months and you should have some highly trained engineering managers to fill the gaps.
The letter is looking at alternative options to man the 40-odd gapped SSgt Art Vehs posts until such time as output from the tiffy course catches up. Alternatives are:
1. Art Unspec
2. Artisan
3. Gap the post
Depends on the particular job from where I sit - some unspec tiffies can do the more 'general' tiffy jobs, some artisans can certainly run fitter sections ... but there are a good number of posts that need both the vehicles knowledge and the management skills learnt on the tiffy course. Anyone else got any alternative options tucked up their sleeves ?
Yup, use Art Wpns to run fitter sections. This will have two benefits:
1. The management post is filled by a trained manager.

2. The Artisan Sgt will be empowered to use his experience to assist the running of the section, making him happy and the Tiff calmer.

3. If the Art Wpn is a stroker, it will be immediately evident to the Chain of Command :)

I suppose an ex-CE Tech could do the job too, but not a Tels or Radar Tech (god forbid)

Too easy!


It always makes me smile when I read that Tiffies are automatically classed as managers because they have sat through hours of endless waffle at Arborfield.

Artizan or Tiffy - what is the difference. Can the guy manage the blokes? Thats all that counts. But for some reason we only seem to think the Tiffies can do it. Should be a laugh when all the class ones come off their tiffy courses with two or three postings under their belts and try to "manage" a group of tradesmen.

The Corps in decay - I never thought I would actually still be serving when it started. Oh goody, now I can witness the chaos first hand :)
Well said, you beat me to the fact that attendance on a Tiffy course automatically makes you a manager is somewhat nieve. I've had good and bad managers from all aspects of the Corps, and all rank ranges. Management can't be learnt by powerpoint!
Hopefully the Corps can keep going for another 34 months, then who cares.
"Variable Engagement - Rather swallow me knob!"
The diffrence between an Artisan and an Artificer is that an Artificer has been trained to be a manager.

I didn't say that Tiffs were all good managers, but they should be, given the time spent at REME Arms School learning the art.

Artisan Sgts are not trained managers, some are bloody good managers but that's just good luck or good drills on their part.

Finally, spelling time for you two:
Artisan - not Artizan
Naïve - not Nieve

See, Artificer training really works :) :)

BTW I saw the decay coming and left our fine Corps for the younger model...
I came off Tiffy course to manage troops with only two units prior, standard stuff for a Tech and Im pretty sure I did a good job.
Why are we always so quick to assume that things will be bad? Who says that a man is no good as a manager? His peers? Subordinates or Superiors? Are we allowed to take in personal prejudice or does the (work)shopsteward have absolute authority?
"an Artificer has been trained to be a manager"

OMG - I hope you are joking!? The ONLY difference between the two is that the Tiffy has endured 2 years of sh*te. If they can manage or not is Russian Roulette. The sad thing is that nobody tells the Tiffy this and he tips up spouting buzzwords and cliches. I've seen it happen at 1st Line and it is cringing to watch.

We have devalued the Artificer process enough now and even those we are forcing to be assessed dont want to become one. Time to bite the bullet and look for another solution coz this aint working. But if we do continue to kid ourselves then heaven help us when the "just off class one course" bunch get hold of a centralised fitter section.
I guess you slept through ACFC 2,3 & 4 then, or you didn't do the course. Either way, your loss.
There are plenty of people in the unit who should be guiding new Tiffs, mainly the Q Man, ASM and the more senior Tiffs. Whether the new tiff listens is up to him. I listened to all the advice I was given and made my decisions based on advice and training.
I don't think we should write off the latest tiffs, some of them would have made it through the old system too....
With such a shortage can someone tell me why they are loading courses that are designed to take 14 people with only 7!?! (the number on the last course to start. )
I ve now been waiting loading for 3 years, i attended the 5 day PAAB and passed first time, on the day i passed i was fully qualified for the Tiffy course as i had completed SMC and EFP ages befor.
I fully understand that they cant lower the proverbial bar in standards but surely if you can pass PAAB you are at the standard required (this raises the other question of how they can tell after one day PAAB ?)
I also understand that it is determined by time left to serve at the end of the course, Ive only just reached my 12 year point so i understand the old and crusties above me are more of a priority than i am.
But still 7 people GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like the Murphys im not bitter !!!!! :x
BadManners said:
you should be asking your chain of command mate.

Tried that mate was thinking of asking for BEME s interview next step
Do it - what harm can it do? Failing that, start a thread here and the DEME(A) chaps will soon pick up on it.
You'll probably find that it's 'contractual issues' with VT that is the hold up - unless I'm still an old cynic of course...
Nige said:
Yup, use Art Wpns to run fitter sections. This will have two benefits:
1. The management post is filled by a trained manager.

2. The Artisan Sgt will be empowered to use his experience to assist the running of the section, making him happy and the Tiff calmer.

3. If the Art Wpn is a stroker, it will be immediately evident to the Chain of Command :)

I suppose an ex-CE Tech could do the job too, but not a Tels or Radar Tech (god forbid)

Too easy!
Totally agree, why can't the tiffy post be an UNSPEC post? i had an ART CE tiffy when i was the VM(A) Cpl/Sgt for an extremely busy armd sqn fitter section and it worked very well. i was left to do my job, report to him as normal in the CoC and he didn't interfere in the slightest. This allowed him to do his job as a manager and me to do my job as a tradesman. Some ART Veh's will inevitably take over on production/technical matters which undoubtably will p*ss off the artisan and make him wonder sometimes why he is there.

i have also worked for Artisans running fitter sections and never had a problem there either?

Out of interest, why is it ok and the done thing for an Artisan to run a HQ fitter section but not the case for a Sabre Sqn fitter section??

Sorry for my bias towards Armd Ftr Sects but that was where i spent the majority of my 12 years.

By the way, this aint a pop at Tiffy's, the corps undoubtably needs trained engineers, i would have been one. Had i not got a 12 month DW :wink:
I heard a nasty rumour that there is a large number of Art Veh posts being created at SEME around this time next year. Not convinced it's true but if it is then I'm definately not convinced the slots are gonna be filled. The number flying around was about 30 (Yes that's right...thirty) so even by taking any redundant tiffies away from units benefitting from a reduced fleet due to WFM, there's still no way on Earth they're gonna fill these slots and the shortage that already exists.
Ok to get back to the original post....yes there is a shortage of Tiffy's around 40 is the number of various trades. This has been the case for a long time, anyone who actually takes time and cares to keep up with what is happening in our Corps and not just take every opportunity to slag it off can find this information out from various sources and not wait for rumour!! The 1 day PAAB (we all have our thoughts good or bad) was not brought in too fast track more potential Arts throught the system, it is there to identify pot Arts earlier in there careers mainly immediately after the Class 1 course.

Without getting into the Artisan/Artificer slagging match, i would just like to say that a manager is a manager regardless of career path/trade no one knows if the person is right for the job until the job is done. Tiffy's do not receive "management" training that will instantly turn them into Uber managers, and not going Tiffy and having 20 years service does not instantly make an Artisan a good manager.

P.s if any one has info on the possible jobs in SEME let me know, i ache to see the glorious sight that is Budds Lane again.....or is it that i live not too far away???

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