Short Range management

Discussion in 'ACF' started by agreement, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. :roll: :x :evil:
    ~The short range course……. although it did help me realise that my county don’t run ranges correctly (not that they are unsafe) it just seems like all they want to achieve is live to brass conversion and as many Cadets as possible to fire a few rounds.

    The Course is the worse course I have EVER attended in the ACF and on Civi St!

    The course was split over 2 weekends. Weekend one was mainly death by power point, and then we got handouts that you couldn’t read as they were poorly print and not designed to be printed out as they were only power point slides. On the first weekend we had an instructor from the SAS.C (Skill at Arms School Corp). This was good as he was a fountain of knowledge but he couldn’t make it on weekend two so one of his peers came in his place that was also a fountain of knowledge, but a different fountain. From what we had learnt from the first weekend we were then told some of it was incorrect, on top of this the Cadet Training Team was also instating a few of the lessons who also put a different slant on things.

    I do under stand that rules for ranges are in black and white but they can easily be interpreted in different ways but you would think that members of the SAS.C and CTTs should be singing from the same song sheet.

    I hated every second of it – through-out the course we (the students) were continually threatened with failing which obviously doesn’t help when you are learning something new.

    The course was designed by regular/ TA instructors and seemed like it had no ACF input; the instructional techniques+ sometimes came across like bullying. Most of the useful stuff was a things we learnt off each other or reading up from Manuals and pams. The rest of the course was merely designed to destroy your confidence and humiliate you mentally.

    They even had the cheek to make someone feel they were unable to pass and leave the course so they didn’t have to fill in the paperwork with someone failing.


    Has anyone had the same problem????
     
  2. You failed, didn't you? :roll:
     
  3. Nope I did pass.
     
  4. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Abbreviated to read:

    I attended a course about how to run ranges safely. My instructors were rather mean, and insisted that we did it properly, without resorting to "the ACF way".

    We were told that if we were not good enough we would not pass the course, which I thought was a bit horrid.

    Someone was actually not up to the task, and had to leave the course rather than being given a permit to run ranges despite being totally incapable.


    Dry your eyes, princess.
     
  5. I understand what you’re saying, and how you’ve read it. That’s not what I’m getting at…

    The post wasn’t intend for anyone that just like to argue with every other person they come across on here, it was indented for instructors that have previously attended the course and if they had the same experiences as we did or was it different.
     
  6. Did my course in May at Strensall. Similar mixture of instructors but found it perfectly ok. The only ones who came across as throbbers were the cadet instructors, SASC were fine, strict but no probs at all...
     
  7. It sounds like you've just had the pleasure of some nobbish instructors, some of them have a real bug up their arrse when it comes to the ACF, though obviously when it comes to ranges or anything to do with weapons we all have to be spot on.

    The_Duke - and what would be the ACF way?
     
  8. Did mine with ATC. Two words............................ Dad's Army..............
     
  9. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    I was refering to his comment about them not seeking ACF input. Why should they? The Small Arms School Corps train to the standards laid down, nothing more, nothing less.
     
  10. I think we did the same course, SASC instructor older than Jesus?
     
  11. I was refering to his comment about them not seeking ACF input. Why should they? The Small Arms School Corps train to the standards laid down, nothing more, nothing less.[/quote]

    A course like this should have ACF input as it is a totally diffrent Pamphlet 21 which was written by a knowlege team made up of member of the armed forces, sasc and the cadet forces.

    Also you may disagree but 99% of decent ACF instrutor will tell you that there sould be a 'Cadet way' as cadets are not soldiers they are children.
     
  12. Why should the cadet forces be permitted to fall below or outside accepted range safety regulations? Are the regs not there for a reason?
     
  13. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    A course like this should have ACF input as it is a totally diffrent Pamphlet 21 which was written by a knowlege team made up of member of the armed forces, sasc and the cadet forces.

    Also you may disagree but 99% of decent ACF instrutor will tell you that there sould be a 'Cadet way' as cadets are not soldiers they are children.[/quote]

    Not may, do disagree when it comes to range work.

    There are safe range management practices, and unsafe ones. These do not differ whether the firer is cadet, recruit or trained soldier. Weapon systems, practices, etc may all change but the key aspects of running a safe LFMT range do not. The lead instructors for this across the whole of the Army are the SASC, not the ACF. They are not teaching cadets, they are teaching cadet instructors.

    Sorry if the nasty men scared you, but it is not about you finding the course all pink and fluffy and "cadet instructor friendly" - it is about teaching you to run a range safely.
     
  14. He was indeed and if it was the same course, you may recall the way the cheeky fecker pointed to me and said that I was a cold war relic! Bashtard! Mind you, I was having a smoke out back when a young female instructor said that my smock looked a little worn and a bit of mental maths told me that I'd had the smock longer than she'd been alive... Ooooer! :oops:

    Cold war relic? He was easily older than me....