Shock horror: Too many Army Officers privately educated

Bob65

Old-Salt
The qualifying criteria to be an officer is set to get the best men needed to
run the Army the fact that the biggest percentage goes from the privately
Educated sector doesn't come into it.
Is this a case of equality raising its ugly head again in as much as we haven't got
enough of this or that type of people joining up.
That is the elephant in the corner of the room, isn’t it? Bog-standard state comps just aren’t very good at education, either in academic subjects or in “character building”. Having been to one, I can’t think of anything they are good at.

Not that I am in any way justifying snobbery but if you drew a Venn diagram of elitism and meritocracy, there genuinely would be some overlap.
 
That is the elephant in the corner of the room, isn’t it? Bog-standard state comps just aren’t very good at education, either in academic subjects or in “character building”. Having been to one, I can’t think of anything they are good at.

Not that I am in any way justifying snobbery but if you drew a Venn diagram of elitism and meritocracy, there genuinely would be some overlap.
Plenty of bog standard state comps produce successful people.
The link in the first post shows about half of officers attended them.
 
The "problem" with the public schools is they give the rich the ability to ignore the other 93% who have no choice over the education their kids get.

Like the US healthcare system world beating but only for a select few.
Not really a system that's fit for the 21st century.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
The "problem" with the public schools is they give the rich the ability to ignore the other 93% who have no choice over the education their kids get.

Like the US healthcare system world beating but only for a select few.
Not really a system that's fit for the 21st century.
Is that their ‘fault’ or the fault of a faulted system?
 

anglo

LE
That is the elephant in the corner of the room, isn’t it? Bog-standard state comps just aren’t very good at education, either in academic subjects or in “character building”. Having been to one, I can’t think of anything they are good at.

Not that I am in any way justifying snobbery but if you drew a Venn diagram of elitism and meritocracy, there genuinely would be some overlap.
The price of closing Grammar schools in the name of equality
 

hotel_california

LE
Book Reviewer
I wondered as to why the BBC dropped this statistic on to their website and what prompted it. After a bit of digging around I discovered that last Wednesday, the Labour Party had a large Westminster meeting to discuss their grass roots campaign to abolish private schools hosted by the Labour MP Kate Green, the Fabian Society and the Socialist Educational Association, and was addressed by another Labour MP, Laura Smith.
The BBC showing their true bias again.
 
And learn how to bully them, but these days without leaving marks or filming them.

Seriously, you’re absolutely right. I remember when I did my officer training; I had been in the University reserves and those joining straight from school who had been at a boarding school slipped into the routine without batting an eyelid. Those who had not left home, or had not been in the cadets, struggled.
For me it was back in a hundred and frozen to death but I found it much the same when I joined Harrogate as an apprentice. Those who had been cadets, boarders and/or been encouraged to join scouts etc slotted right in. Those who had been cossetted at home not so well. I know it's not officer related but the principle is sound.
 
Is that their ‘fault’ or the fault of a faulted system?
I don’t think it’s anyone’s fault, it’s just a fact of life.

Lots of people want the best for their family and some don’t, some can afford to pay for the privilege and some can’t and there are good and bad across the social spectrum.

Some rich people pay for their kids to go to public school for more focused education, some because that’s just what has always happened and some to dump them and get them from under their feet.

Some poor people support their kids the best they can in their state education, some because that’s just what has always happened and some to dump them and get them from under their feet.

In general privately educated people will get a head start because that’s the way it is. But there are those who excel and those who don’t from all parts of the spectrum.

That’s life, as the saying goes ^~
 
What about welbeck. Does Welbeck count as ‘privately educated’? I recall some astonishing examples of learned behaviour and resulting snobbery among some Royal Signals ex Welbeck types. I’ve a vague recollection of one particularly bad example who ended up transferring to the Green Howards or something and becoming a company commander.
You're kidding? How sh!t state must the Green Howerds mess have been in take one of my Corps Rupert's? It wasn't as if we got any one from the top 80% in the first place. Not that they were all bobbins but tip-top they were not.
 
The "problem" with the public schools is they give the rich the ability to ignore the other 93% who have no choice over the education their kids get.

Like the US healthcare system world beating but only for a select few.
Not really a system that's fit for the 21st century.
A lot of private schools dont cater to the rich, they cater to parents who sacrifice fags, booze and foreign holidays.

Do you suggest that people shouldnt be given the choice how to spend their money.
 
Some rich people pay for their kids to go to public school for more focused education, some because that’s just what has always happened and some to dump them and get them from under their feet.
A discussion on the CEA is on another thread.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
In terms of private schooling, it can be brilliant or it can be shite.

I benefitted from BSA and left school and walked into university, (Into a very competitive course minimum 400 applicants to 40 places) 5 applications, 5 unconditional offers.

Whilst still at university I applied for the Army, son of an ex-ranker, at that stage my CV was mainly still based on school stuff. Again, a piece of the proverbial.

I left the Army and went into business as a principle failed miserably as I was just not a businessman, used to a salary, could not bring myself to charge folk for things.

I would say on balance that private school was excellent preparation for the life I choose in terms of life with plenty of routine and structure but failed me when I was then fully independent. Also growing up in a boarding house with 50 other boys and in an all boy school is not a great start to life.

But back when I was in practice, my business partner and myself compared CVs, mine was full of interesting stuff, clubs, societies, challenges, places I had been. he left school, went to university and returned to his home town.

I am glad I had the opportunities I had but on balance Mrs F and I decided to not send the kids away, (for starters don't think I could afford it) but we have both had to work very hard to ensure that the kids all have had as varied a CV as I did, lots of different sports at county level and all achieved university so it is possible in public school but the parents have to do a lot of work to achieve that.
 

Pisseduppardre

Old-Salt
I don’t think it’s anyone’s fault, it’s just a fact of life.

Lots of people want the best for their family and some don’t, some can afford to pay for the privilege and some can’t and there are good and bad across the social spectrum.

Some rich people pay for their kids to go to public school for more focused education, some because that’s just what has always happened and some to dump them and get them from under their feet.

Some poor people support their kids the best they can in their state education, some because that’s just what has always happened and some to dump them and get them from under their feet.

In general privately educated people will get a head start because that’s the way it is. But there are those who excel and those who don’t from all parts of the spectrum.

That’s life, as the saying goes ^~
Part of the problem in state schools is that the 25 or so kids in the class who want to learn and are capable of learning are being held back by the ones that have no idea or no desire. Teachers end up spending too much time dealing with the awful ones and cannot focus on the majority. There is no real support to get the awkward buggers out of the class room to stop their disruption.
 
Part of the problem in state schools is that the 25 or so kids in the class who want to learn and are capable of learning are being held back by the ones that have no idea or no desire. Teachers end up spending too much time dealing with the awful ones and cannot focus on the majority. There is no real support to get the awkward buggers out of the class room to stop their disruption.
Exactly. Public schools don't select the kids, they select the parents who value education. Funnily enough, children from a home environment that values education tend to value education as well.
 
That is the elephant in the corner of the room, isn’t it? Bog-standard state comps just aren’t very good at education, either in academic subjects or in “character building”. Having been to one, I can’t think of anything they are good at.

Not that I am in any way justifying snobbery but if you drew a Venn diagram of elitism and meritocracy, there genuinely would be some overlap.
What a load of cobblers.

Most state schools get between £4.5 - 6k per child p.a. Class sizes in the core 8 subjects were rising not falling: I had between 31 - 33 kids in my GCSE classes - compare that to the private sector who spend at least 2x - 3x and have much smaller classes; private schools,by the way, don't have to employ qualified teachers nor does the private sector have to take in any child between 3 -16, they have the ability to select by wealth or ability, the state sector does not; the really experienced teachers are leaving or retiring; 20 - 30% don't complete their first 2 years if they survive their PGCE and first year in the job) add in another 30% who bin the job before their fifth year, nor does the private sector have to deal with parents, who, in some cases, will break your legs because little Jayden said you looked at him funny.

I could add shedloads more but this isn't supposed to be a dick-shrinking contest. The two sectors are worlds apart.
 
You're kidding? How sh!t state must the Green Howerds mess have been in take one of my Corps Rupert's? It wasn't as if we got any one from the top 80% in the first place. Not that they were all bobbins but tip-top they were not.
Not fair or true in my experience. I had the pleasure to meet or work for at least a half dozen tip-top officers in the Corps who would have more than held their own in a line infantry regiment.

However I agree we also had more than our fair share of useless Ruperts.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I know I left school in the 80s but my class sizes (as private school) were 28-30.

And we had disruptive twats too.

And some who were as thick as mince. No amount of education, private or otherwise was going to get them passing an exam! And they didn't.
 

Bob65

Old-Salt
Plenty of bog standard state comps produce successful people.
The link in the first post shows about half of officers attended them.
If 1) a state comp is as good as public school and 2) the army wants the best people then 3) the ratio would match the general population. 3 isn’t true so either or both of 1 and 2 can’t be true.
 
Part of the problem in state schools is that the 25 or so kids in the class who want to learn and are capable of learning are being held back by the ones that have no idea or no desire. Teachers end up spending too much time dealing with the awful ones and cannot focus on the majority. There is no real support to get the awkward buggers out of the class room to stop their disruption.
Thats the story of my 4 years at Grammar (a good one apparently).

To add: I was one of the "awful ones"/silly little barstewards doing all the disruptive stuff!

Class, I hope it got easier for you after I "was invited to leave".
 
If 1) a state comp is as good as public school and 2) the army wants the best people then 3) the ratio would match the general population. 3 isn’t true so either or both of 1 and 2 can’t be true.
I didnt say all state comps are as good as public schools. I was pointing out that lots of people attend state schools and do just fine in the life.
 

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