Shed of a Car

#1
I own a 2.0 Litre diesel 206 (2001)

Stumped by a problem, Mechanic Friend also stumped. The car seams to be eating Discs/Pads, 2 pairs in 6 months yet nothing appears to be wrong with the vehicle. Last set lasted about 6 Weeks before I started getting the Judder of warped discs again.

Tried replacing them to no avail. Obviously replacing the disc without a clue to the problem is just pissing money away but I havent got a clue what could be causing this.

Any ideas?
 
#3
I'd be worried about the condition of your brake calipers,
are they returning far enough? six weeks is simply to short a life for brake pads,are your discs overheating that will cause warping
are you using dealer parts? or spurious parts? for the sake of a couple of quid it's worth using genuine brake pads.
is there any noises evident?
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
front or rear?

if the brakes are binding then your fuel bill will be going up as well.
 
#5
Probably failure of the rear wheel cylinders, causing brake fluid to piss all over your rear drums and shoes making them ineffective. Therefore the fronts are working too hard and wearing faster, or they're binding like the other man said.
 
#6
The clues may be in the question...

If you get the judder of warped discs, it could be because you've got warped discs.

If your mechanic friend keeps replacing them and the problem repeats, take your car to a place where your mechanic friend isn't and get the discs replaced there.

If your mechanic friend has been buying dodgy discs or has been fitting them wrongly, the problem won't return.

"Mechanic friend"! - I suppose you have a Civil Engineer and a cheap lawyer among your acquaintences...
 
#7
As regards comments about weak back brakes causing the front brakes to work harder, if the Pug is anything like a Citroen, the back brakes don't work anyway until you've got a load equivalent to three people sitting in the back...
 
#8
I'd be worried about the condition of your brake calipers,
are they returning far enough? six weeks is simply to short a life for brake pads,are your discs overheating that will cause warping
are you using dealer parts? or spurious parts? for the sake of a couple of quid it's worth using genuine brake pads.
is there any noises evident?
Sticking callipers or sliders does sound quite possible.... Very cheep after market parts if used could also be a cause although never use dealer branded parts, they are just Brembo or Quint & Hazel or Ferodo with the manufactures name printed on them and a 50% mark up.

front or rear?

if the brakes are binding then your fuel bill will be going up as well.
Yeah it will be going up but if they are binding that much to have a noticeable increase in fuel consumption I think the first combat indicator will be when he dips the clutch his Pug tries to do a handstand!

Probably failure of the rear wheel cylinders, causing brake fluid to piss all over your rear drums and shoes making them ineffective. Therefore the fronts are working too hard and wearing faster, or they're binding like the other man said.
No.... Just no!
 
#9
Mechanic is a family friend, I think his professional pride is dented by this and i have never had a problem with his work previously. We have used Ferodo pads not sure on make of discs. It's the front discs which are the problem. I'm pretty certain the discs are warped I just can't figure the causation of said warping.

The car has also been into kwik fit they can see nothing wrong.

When I bought the car I did discover lots of issues, had it over a year and we have discovered a lot of bodges I think there will be an underlying problem rather than parts failure. Back to the garage tomorrow anyway will see what it throws up.
 
#10
It could be down to your driving...

Found this: -Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths

There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.
Now, I've never been issued with break-in instructions when pads have been replaced, other than "don't try to stop quickly until they're bedded in, so don't drive stupidly fast for the first 50 miles..."
 
#11
Most of my driving is city driving,

on the second replacement I did consider it may have been my driving. My days of rallying around like a nutter are about 5 years behind me and I do drive sensibly these days.

Thanks for your input everyone, I'd rather not replace the discs without getting to the root of the problem.

With it being the diesel everything seems to be different from the petrol counterparts (fault code reading for example is pretty much a main dealer job as non of my local garages have equipment with the right software)
 
#12
If you do go down the route of harsh deceleration from 60mph to 5mph ten times to break your new brakes in, could you give us a heads up on which roads to avoid?

I foresee carnage. Or road rage.
 
#14
A good way to check for binding brakes is bring the car to almost stopped then let it roll, if they are binding it'll stop dead at some point. Sticking calipers have a habit of curing themselves when the discs cool down, makes 'em harder to spot. Old brake hoses can swell internally & act like one way valves, notoriously difficult to diagnose as they look the same and slowly leak back the fluid from the caliper.
 
#15
.......................................When I bought the car I did discover lots of issues, had it over a year and we have discovered a lot of bodges I think there will be an underlying problem rather than parts failure. Back to the garage tomorrow anyway will see what it throws up.
Could the problem be away from the brakes? You say "lots of bodges", it's not been front ended and had its geometry skewed or something (lozenged?)?
 
#16
As nearly everyone else has said, it's your calipers. Change them for a reconditioned pair, and change the hoses while you are at it, as they are relatively cheap and at over ten years old could do with being changed anyway. Obviously new discs and pads too.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#17
A good way to check for binding brakes is bring the car to almost stopped then let it roll, if they are binding it'll stop dead at some point. Sticking calipers have a habit of curing themselves when the discs cool down, makes 'em harder to spot. Old brake hoses can swell internally & act like one way valves, notoriously difficult to diagnose as they look the same and slowly leak back the fluid from the caliper.
Good advice. Or drive normally for a few miles then get home, jack up the front and turn the wheels by hand? First you need to be able to spot the problem because only then will you be able to spot when you've cured it. I cant see steering geometry will effect braking - more likely to scrub tyres. But it wants sorting. With that sort of wear I'd be worried about heat transfer to other components like wheel bearings.
 
#18
I have considered that it was front ended, but it has been in for two mots since purchase (independent from the guy who does my repairs) the tracking was way out when I purchased it and that was corrected. One of the first bodges we discovered on the car was a poorly fitted front near side bearing, because that was ill fitted he had padded out the discs/callipers with washers to make them align properly.

When you say hoses do you mean break fluid pipes? They where replaced on last mot due to corrosion new copper ones on the car now.

Running up to the garage now cheers for the input
 
#19
When you say hoses do you mean break fluid pipes? They where replaced on last mot due to corrosion new copper ones on the car now.
The hoses are the flexible rubber ones that go from the caliper to the solid copper pipe, and allow for suspension travel and movement due to steering.
 
#20
After getting it jacked up we can see the warped discs when you spin the wheel, also looked like bearing is shagged (i think someone mentioned this could be caused by heat transference?)

I get the feeling replacing these parts will just be a delaying action, callipers are moving as they should etc...
 

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