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Shamima Begum allowed back to the UK

And no fuel either , so said 17 y/o's driving King Tigers on an icebound B road with only 2 hours training ditch the bloody things within 200 yds , blocking the entire battlegroup for the day.
Nazis , top tip! When planning a last grasp counterattack with scarce resources , don't let the Fuhrer , who knows eff all about tanks and is tucked up in a bunker somewhere , choose the precise route or order of march .
So Shamima was driving King Tigers at the age of 17 for ISIS. No wonder the government doesn't want her back.
 

PFGEN

GCM
I always wonder how the Americans of 44/45 would have done against the Wehrmacht of 1940.

The finest army in the world was destroyed on the Russian steppe, what the allies faced in 44/45 wasn't the same lethal force of 1940, imho (not that they weren't still incredibly capable and dangerous).

Agree on them not being the same lethal force of 1940. However in repose to the hypothetical question of '44/45 US versus '40 Wehrmacht the answer would be; quite well actually. The yanks had a wake up call in Tunisia (Kasserine pass comes to mind). The Afrika Korps gave them a shoeing as they had little experience. By the time June 6th came along things had changed and expensive lessons had been learned.

To get this back on thread the point of equating HJ with ISIS youth was the brainwashing that had taken place. The HJ members had had years of brainwashing and would follow pretty much any order. They substituted military competence with fanaticism. Even as prisoners they could be dangerous and many years later many of them still believed in the 1000 year Reich. The ISIS mob are just the same, ineffective against a professional military force but fanatical to the end. They should be left in the shiteholes they wanted to call home rather than importing them back to the UK and other countries. The bill alone for having them kept under surveillance is going to be huge.
 
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Agree on them not being the same lethal force of 1940. However in repose to the hypothetical question of '44/45 US versus '40 Wehrmacht the answer would be; quite well actually. The yanks had a wake up call in Tunisia (Kasserine pass comes to mind). The Afrika Korps gave them a shoeing as they had little experience. By the time June 6th came along things had changed and expensive lessons had been learned.

To get this back on thread the point of equating HJ with ISIS youth was the brainwashing that had taken place. The HJ members had had years of brainwashing and would follow pretty much any order. They substituted military competence with fanaticism. Even as prisoners they could be dangerous and many years later many of them still believed in the 1000 year Reich. The ISIS mob are just the same, ineffective against a professional military force but fanatical to the end. They should be left in the shiteholes they wanted to call home rather than importing them back to the UK and other countries. The bill alone for having them kept under surveillance is going to be huge.
The Valour and the Horror. In Desperate Battle, Normandy 1944. An excellent Canadian series of three episodes made in 1944. From about 26.00 until 34.00 deals with the 134 Canadian POW's murdered by 12 SS but also deals with alleged Allied war crimes against German POW's including a British sailor witnessing Canadian soldiers bayoneting German POW's on D Day and a General who was a junior officer in Normandy watching his men murder German POW's.

 
PFGEN said:
and many years later many of them still believed in the 1000 year Reich.

Thats nonsense. Where is your evidence for that. They were no more brainwashed than anyone else in their age group.

My bold I'm not so sure about that, until membership was made compulsory in 1936 many weren't brainwashed by the Nazi's and even when forced to join in 1939 weren't as fanatical as the hard core!

Hitler Youth | The Holocaust Encyclopedia (ushmm.org)
snip "By the time Adolf Hitler came to power as German chancellor in January 1933, the Hitler Youth had approximately 100,000 members. In the following year, all other youth organizations were forbidden. The Hitler Youth and its auxiliaries became the only legal youth movement in Nazi Germany. In 1936, the Law concerning the Hitler Youth made membership compulsory for all children over ten years old. Compliance was not universal, however, and two ancillary decrees were issued in 1939 to make youth service compulsory and non-membership a punishable offense.
 

Sana

Old-Salt
It's because people are so used to the freedoms we enjoy here that they take them completely for granted and don't realise that this situation is extraordinary both in geography and history. I made a comment in the BLM thread I think, along the lines of those who have recently immigrated and can compare their situations back wherever they came from with here have totally different attitudes to those born here, who have never known anything else and imagine that here, of all places, they're "oppressed".

(Obviously there are those who came here directly fleeing something and still bite the hand that feeds but they are not merely ignorant, they are quite knowingly taking advantage).

Too much freedom in the UK to say what you want and do what you want. These people forget or even totally unware of what it is like in their countries of origin. Do you think that people should be responsible with freedom, or that immigrants should allow freedom to run both ways? I believe in the latter. Let white English people say what they want too.

I generally say far more good things than bad things about Britain.
 
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Mufulira42

Old-Salt
The Valour and the Horror. In Desperate Battle, Normandy 1944. An excellent Canadian series of three episodes made in 1944. From about 26.00 until 34.00 deals with the 134 Canadian POW's murdered by 12 SS but also deals with alleged Allied war crimes against German POW's including a British sailor witnessing Canadian soldiers bayoneting German POW's on D Day and a General who was a junior officer in Normandy watching his men murder German POW's.

It caused no end of rage at the Legion branches when first aired as did the producers second effort at prtraying Bomber Command as mere aerial butchers. The producers were not veterans or had ever served in Cdn Forces
 

PFGEN

GCM
Thats nonsense. Where is your evidence for that. They were no more brainwashed than anyone else in their age group.
Generally from watching too many documentaries with interviews with some of the old boys. I also met a couple. Thought it was a wind up at first followed by a lapse in my German comprehension but once the warmed to the subject there was no stopping them. Definitely the minority but the do/did exist.

Grandfather on my wife's side was in the HJ before joining the army. He didn't have to be forced to join, in his eyes what bloke wouldn't, they had very little and this organisation comes along offering smart uniforms, chance to ride motorbikes, play sports, shoot guns and lots of opportunities to pull the girls. That all was accompanied with a stiff diet of propaganda.
 

Topical article considers the attempts to de-radicalise the terrorists whom we have managed to catch and imprison.

"But we should also ask questions about an unshakable professional credo that believes everyone who offends is capable of redemption. This view has been in the ascendancy within the higher echelons of the prison service for some time. It is precisely the sort of philosophy that regards security and boundaries as subordinate to the rescue of human potential, real, imagined or confected."
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer

Topical article considers the attempts to de-radicalise the terrorists whom we have managed to catch and imprison.

"But we should also ask questions about an unshakable professional credo that believes everyone who offends is capable of redemption. This view has been in the ascendancy within the higher echelons of the prison service for some time. It is precisely the sort of philosophy that regards security and boundaries as subordinate to the rescue of human potential, real, imagined or confected."
Best summarised as ‘Some people are just wrong ‘uns’.
 
Usman Khan intended to kill all of the Learning Together staff. Still, better them than the lives of decent people. They will not be missed.
Some of the staff working with him that day were decent people.

It's worth mentioning that the chaps with the Narwhal tusk holder were also offenders.
Indeed, the two other people people who helped tackle Khan – Steve Gallant and John Crilly – were themselves convicted murderers.

What we should be doing is looking at each individual and assessing their likely rehabilitation. In many cases it will be possible. Twisted religious beliefs, and cults, probably are further down the list of likely rehab successful outcomes.

John Crilly was involved in the murder and robbery of a 70 odd year old. Since then he has earned a OU Law degree and seems to have come out of the dark place he was in.

Steve Gallant basically stamped a man to death, in some sort of mob vigilante attack.

Prison needs to be a source of education and rehabilitation but also deterrence and punishment.
 
Usman Khan intended to kill all of the Learning Together staff. Still, better them than the lives of decent people. They will not be missed.

I read a comment from those those that are judging this case (struggling to find it now) that mentioned the right to fairness (for her) supersedes any national security interest. The lives of decent people then have been relegated to somewhere further down the pecking order.

The attitude from the great and good of the UK has been that if we treat others nicely nicely then they will like us and become like us, this thinking only proves the great and good are naïve fools but it is the people that ay for their foolishness.

These types and their thinking tell us it is wrong to put up barriers or otherwise protect oneself as such moves actually cause criminality and violence They think they can lead us to a world of commune, peace and love, but in the meantime an attacker can only be the victim of a badly governed society, that being the real villain of the peace.

So we continue to tear down protections at every opportunity as a sort of penance and restorative move. We have a Police force that is subdued and ill equipped to take on armed violence, likewise the citizenry and much to the annoyance of the peace and love brigade we still put up whatever barriers we can.

Paradoxically this all goes to create an even more divided, bunkered down and fractured society, or ghettoization.
 
His (avowedly left-leaning) father is suing the Home Office regarding the death. Not the killer, but the organiser of the event.
So twisted has our legal system become.
Follow the money…

Yet those who organised and ran the event had the same mind-set as his son, whose ideas he still supports.

Muddled thinking on his part, methinks.
 
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