Shame on Thames Valley Police No Escort for War Dead

#1
Daily Mail Article

They serve the same Queen, fight the same foe and lay down their lives with equal valour and sacrifice.

But when the fallen heroes of Canada and Britain come home, the welcome is very different.

At airbases in both countries there is only sombre respect.

But today The Mail on Sunday publishes extraordinary pictures that contrast the final road journeys: in Canada, there is a police escort and crowds line the route; in Britain, the hearses are denied outriders and go unremarked.

Coffins carrying the Canadian soldiers' bodies are driven 107 miles from the airbase at Trenton, Ontario, to a coroner's office in Toronto; in Britain the trip is 50 miles from RAF Lyneham, Wiltshire, to the morgue at Oxford's John Radcliffe Hospital.

In Canada the road is cleared and a police escort of several squad cars ensures a smooth passage as onlookers pay tribute and police and fire officers salute.

But in Britain most of the journey is spent ignored and stuck in traffic – because Thames Valley Police refuse to provide an escort as they "focus on community safety rather than ceremonial roles".
They were probably all to busy persecuting law abiding motorists with thier poxy camera's.
 
#2
It could soon be sorted by allowing RMP to use their blue lights on public roads for such occasions.

To be honest i would rather the police went and stuck their head up their arse anyway, especially Thames Valley who appear to still live in the 19 Century.
 
#3
Thames Valley Police takes complaints from members of the public extremely seriously. If you are unhappy with the service you have received or if there is an issue you wish to raise, contact us.

How do I make a complaint?

Visit a police station and ask to speak to a Sergeant, Inspector or Supervisor. If none are available at that time ask the desk officer to make an arrangement for you to be contacted.

Write to your Local Police Area (LPA) Commander

Call us on our single non-emergency telephone number:
0845 8 505 505

Contact the Professional Standards department

Contact the Thames Valley Police Authority

Contact the Independent Police Complaints Commission


Thames Valley Police contacts:

Oxfordshire contacts

Chief Superintendent
Shaun Morley
Basic Command Unit Commander Oxfordshire
Oxford Police Station
St. Aldates
Oxford
OX1 1SZ
Tel: 0845 8 505 505


Superintendent Howard Stone
Local Police Area Commander
Cherwell
Banbury Police Station
Warwick Road
Banbury
OX16 2AE
Tel: 0845 8 505 505


Superintendent Brendan O'Dowda
Local Police Area Commander
Oxford City
Oxford Police Station
St. Aldates
Oxford.
OX1 1SZ
Tel: 0845 8 505 505


Superintendent Andrew Murray
Local Police Area Commander
South Oxfordshire
Didcot Police Station
Mereland Road
Didcot
OX11 8BG
Tel: 0845 8 505 505


Chief Inspector Dennis Evernden
Local Police Area Commander
West Oxfordshire
Witney Police Station
Welch Way
Witney
OX28 6HN
Tel: 0845 8 505 505


Chief Inspector Phil Littlechild
Local Police Area Commander
Vale of White Horse
Abingdon Police Station
Colwell Drive
Abingdon
OX14 1AU
Tel: 0845 8 505 505
 
#4
Firstly, its from the Daily Hate so the usual scepticism is required. And secondly, if true, can you understand why the top plod bod in Thames Valley wouldnt want to do this 'ceremonial'?

I quite agree that plod should be out catching criminals in lieu of lining a route. How many of us complain on here that plod doesn't do his proper job of fighting and preventing crime?

It goes deeper than that though. Its yet another denial that we are at war and blokes are coming back in black doss bags.

I'd rather see the local MP of North Wiltshire and the local MPs of the fallen appear at the repatriation of the coffins to be honest.
 
#5
well I guess most of you have had the e-mail about the way Canadians welcome back their war dead - they may have larger Police Services then us. In an ideal world people here would be lining the streets to show their respects but as Lord Flasheart says it would be more appropriate for local dignitaries to show respect on behalf of their constituents
 
#6
Now there lads, don't want to make a scene over this so move along now. Ain't you got am 'omes to go to? You lot got to realise that being a copper ain't letting off drunk Freemasons and fitting people up like it used to be in the good old days. Now the Police have to fill in forms, meet targets, attend lectures, be aware of the rights minorities and train PCSOs to out when it is raining or it gets dark.
As for escorting the hearses, can't you squaddies realise that it may offend some people. Of course the average run of the mill Brit won't be offended but we aren't interested in their opinion and we usually go out of our way to prosecute them for anything we can.
Then there are the Health and Safety, Human Rights and Freedom of Information implications regarding escorting the hearses. If that does not satisfy you lot we will throw in The Prevention of Terrorism Act or lots of obscure legislation to shut you up.

As an afterthought, surely the MOD Police can provide some kind of escort - or would that be self defeating?
 
#7
As dingerr said best solution would probably be to just give the RMP special dispensation to use the blue lights on these occasions. Gets the vehicles carrying the remains to their destination in the shortest possible time and allows the police to carry on doing their job catching criminals.
 
#8
Brick said:
As dingerr said best solution would probably be to just give the RMP special dispensation to use the blue lights on these occasions. Gets the vehicles carrying the remains to their destination in the shortest possible time and allows the police to carry on doing their job ensuring the policies of liabour are adhered to, political correctness isn't being breeched, paper work is keeping bobby off the street, whoever the Chief Inspector is is gaining face time for ensuring various ethnic groups are being pandered to regardless of the crimes they commit, taking the easy route of stopping innocent motorists to garner higher stats and generally allowing themselves to become the CP wing of the Govenment as opposed to working for the people.
A couple of minor details i thought I'd amend with your post but its late and I'm feeling militant.

Its not plod on the ground who is at fault but the puppets who are positioned in authority who should be ashamed as well as the systematic denial of the government and all their little helpers who do not recognise the ultimate commitment that their 'subjects' make.

They are more than happy to get vote winning photo opportunities when battalions return, pressing the flesh of the troops coming off the aircraft but seem to be too busy when the black doss bags travel to the slab.

Why should the RMP do the route lining? I know they would be more than happy with the duty but some people seem to ignore the realism of what it means to send your Armed Forces to two wars. Its not all glossy gong parades and BBC reports of success. The reality is dead and severely wounded young men and women coming home.
 
#9
The-Lord-Flasheart said:
Brick said:
As dingerr said best solution would probably be to just give the RMP special dispensation to use the blue lights on these occasions. Gets the vehicles carrying the remains to their destination in the shortest possible time and allows the police to carry on doing their job ensuring the policies of liabour are adhered to, political correctness isn't being breeched, paper work is keeping bobby off the street, whoever the Chief Inspector is is gaining face time for ensuring various ethnic groups are being pandered to regardless of the crimes they commit, taking the easy route of stopping innocent motorists to garner higher stats and generally allowing themselves to become the CP wing of the Govenment as opposed to working for the people.
A couple of minor details i thought I'd amend with your post but its late and I'm feeling militant.

Its not plod on the ground who is at fault but the puppets who are positioned in authority who should be ashamed as well as the systematic denial of the government and all their little helpers who do not recognise the ultimate commitment that their 'subjects' make.

They are more than happy to get vote winning photo opportunities when battalions return, pressing the flesh of the troops coming off the aircraft but seem to be too busy when the black doss bags travel to the slab.

Why should the RMP do the route lining? I know they would be more than happy with the duty but some people seem to ignore the realism of what it means to send your Armed Forces to two wars. Its not all glossy gong parades and BBC reports of success. The reality is dead and severely wounded young men and women coming home.
To be honest Flash I thought the suggestion of having the relevant MPs was the most appropriate - after all it is likely they voted for Afghanistan/Iraq and they should see the impact of the decisions they make. Likewise Min of Def should also get off his arse and show some respect for once.

lancslad
 
#10
It really is a disgrace that any local police force cannot organize some practical asistance in the movement of British War Dead.
Respect for the fallen is required as a matter of course.
When I was working in the UK I remember the High Speed convoy laid on so that the Bilge Rat Blur could travel fast from one location to another. Police m/cycle out riders clearing the way say 5 miles ahead so he could wisk through.
Yet nothing for Tom.
john
 
#11
The-Lord-Flasheart said:
Brick said:
As dingerr said best solution would probably be to just give the RMP special dispensation to use the blue lights on these occasions. Gets the vehicles carrying the remains to their destination in the shortest possible time and allows the police to carry on doing their job ensuring the policies of liabour are adhered to, political correctness isn't being breeched, paper work is keeping bobby off the street, whoever the Chief Inspector is is gaining face time for ensuring various ethnic groups are being pandered to regardless of the crimes they commit, taking the easy route of stopping innocent motorists to garner higher stats and generally allowing themselves to become the CP wing of the Govenment as opposed to working for the people.
A couple of minor details i thought I'd amend with your post but its late and I'm feeling militant.
Yeah, after posting that I knew I'd get a response. :) But I was feeling charitable and I figure that's what the majority of police officers would like to be doing, rather than what they often end up doing.

Why should the RMP do the route lining?
I can't speak for dingerr but what I meant by using the RMP was for escort duty with the vehicles so they could get through traffic fastest. Lining the route and the like as they do in Canada is a whole other question.
 
#12
Poppy said:
well I guess most of you have had the e-mail about the way Canadians welcome back their war dead - they may have larger Police Services then us. In an ideal world people here would be lining the streets to show their respects but as Lord Flasheart says it would be more appropriate for local dignitaries to show respect on behalf of their constituents
Not really mate, I've just come back from visiting Calgary Police (no, not on a government fact finding jolly, but looking for a transfer out) and their force is about 1600 Officers and 450 civilian support staff. They police the population of Calgary (approx 1.5m) with the same amount of officers and half the Civilian "Support" staff as my force which looks after approx 400k (ish)

I use the term "Support" staff in for my force loosely as, with the exception of the civvie jailers and a handfull of others they do feck all to support frontline policing.

So it's not a problem of numbers but of resourcing. Calgary, as an example, are far better at putting bods on the ground and equipping them to stay out there on patrol and trusting them to use their judgement, and with support staff who feel part of the team and seem keen to support the officers on the streets (that was my impression anyway).

I also noted that the Calgary Police vehicles all sport Support Our Troops yellow ribbons on them. It was officialy dissaproved of but "allowed" to continue anyway. Over here Cops get in the Sh!t if they display a union jack on their van.

Also, whilst I was out there, a Calgarian reservist was killed out in the Stan. The whole city was in mourning. Front page news for days, flags at half mast, and on the TV constantly. Over here the media and authorities don't give a toss, so neither do a large portion of the general public.

I don't think it's down to the fact that Thames Valley can't be asked or anything similar. It's more to do with the failing morals and proper appreciation for what our best people are doing for us in foreign countries. People don't have to agree with the politics (I imagine a lot of Canadians don't agree) but they should be supporting our troops.

All in all my impression of Canada, and Calgary in particular, is that it's how it should be here. It's not without it's problems but a damned sight better than the hole the UK is rapidly becoming.
 
#13
I live in Wiltshire and knew nothing of the repatriation ceremonies. I assume Wootton Bassett was informed as the cortege would be passing through where as nothing was published outside the village which is a shame.

Also, Police forces are having to get their priorities in order, those who fight for and make the ultimate sacrafice for their country are bottom of the list, followed by anyone who was born in this country and pays their way.

Avon & Somerset are sending their officers to Poland to 'immerse' themselves in the culture so they are better prepared for dealing with all the Polish immigrants........ waste of tax payers money or good idea?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7344200.stm
 
#14
I'm retired now, but if Thames Valley want to lend me the bikes, I'll get a trained and experienced Escort Team together for them and we'd do it for free. The least we coould do for our fallen.
 
#15
Would it not make sense to let Wiltshire carry on with the escort and Thames Valley to provide just 1 vehicle to the escort or would that be a no go as it would be different force operating in their patch and showing them up or is there a large immigrant population in the Thames Valley Police area and the pen pushers at the top don't want to upset any ethnic minority??
 
#16
Why dont the massed members of Arrse do something then?
I know that a similar thing is done in America by a bunch of bikers.

My own opinion on this is with flash really.
I would rather see politicians stood on the tarmac when the planes come in. But for them that would be to much like being human and moral
 
#17
Brick said:
As dingerr said best solution would probably be to just give the RMP special dispensation to use the blue lights on these occasions. Gets the vehicles carrying the remains to their destination in the shortest possible time and allows the police to carry on doing their job catching criminals.
I dont think escorting a hearse courd hadly be described as a "Blue Light" run.

The RMPs are our Police, we should use them more to serve the military community. Some local forces have been prepared to let RMPs use their blues in the past, if not then get the MDP in, if not see if we still have those big Hondas that used to escort the Tank Transporters, if not use Can Ams etc etc etc.

I'm not quite sure I agree with TVPs view of this being a "ceremonial" event, servicemen getting killed seems to be a matter of routine these days, not a matter of ceremonial. Compare and contrast with what happens when a copper gets killed in the line of duty.

Perhaps the G1 / J1 system needs to have a long hard think about how it notifies the wider community of these repartiations. ( does it bother presently). The 1,000 people who work at my plant should at least be told if there is going to be a funeral / repatriation in our area.

Despite the recent protest at the NUT AGM, there are probably some schools that would turn out, in schools and CCF uniform. The Army recruits from society and protects society. Should we deny society their right to pay their respects to a returning seviceman or woman, who has laid down their life for society?

Does Arrse have to take this on as well?
We seemed to do a pretty good job over 36 Grays Lane.

All G1 would need to do is to post on a "repatriations" thread.... unless it's going to be a security risk ( better Cc John Smeaton then)
 
#18
suits_U said:
Why dont the massed members of Arrse do something then?
I know that a similar thing is done in America by a bunch of bikers.

My own opinion on this is with flash really.
I would rather see politicians stood on the tarmac when the planes come in. But for them that would be to much like being human and moral
Good call. There is obviously more advanced publicity about the arrivals and transfers in Canada than here and our MoD needs to address this shortcoming. At the moment, I (and I suspect most others) wouldn't have the foggiest where to look for the information. Does anyone have any advice?
 
#19
I'd have to go with the politician thing too.
But I think that Thames Valley could spare at least one or two patol cars just to ease the hearse through the traffic. I don't know about Canada but when I lived in the States any time there was any funeral prosession the hearse was escorted by Police to clear the roads ahead
 
#20
Only thing I can find are small headlines on Modoracle. But they are only announced on the day the repatriation ceremony is due to take place. Too short notice for anyhting to be organised.
 

Latest Threads